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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 18:18:02 GMT
There were signs William was interested in Julia from the 1st episode of MM. The only reason they were dragged out into S2 was because William was respectfully still mourning Liza. William has said that he'd always been interested in Julia from the moment they met. As for women, I think he did have experience. He was just outwardly reserved because of Liza, and his personality. If you mean that line when William was drinking with George, I think that was a flub on the part of the writers: because that would mean William was thinking of Julia when he was dating Enid. There are some people who like to think he had an honest (if short) relationship with Anna, too. So that line was just William in retrospect claiming there was never a moment he wasn't in love with Julia - not a record of what actually happened. I do think he was intrigued by Julia in Season 1 (definitely by Still Waters!!!), but by then he had known her for a while. I'm not sure when Liza died within that timeline, though. Regarding William's prior experience, please join us for the next meeting of the Cult of the Logging Camp Sisterhood. Yeah, as much as I love my duality theory (and I'm not yet ready to abandon it  ) I'm starting to come around to the idea that William's been with other women, if not Julia. As recently as season 5-with Anna Fulford. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Sept 19, 2014 18:18:57 GMT
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 18:21:42 GMT
I never thought of that about Julia over psycho-analyzing Murdoch. Hopefully she won't be annoying about it. Have you seen the butterflies episode yet (Season 7)? It's one of my least favorite precisely because it does give William a phony fear just for the sake of Julia being able to psychoanalyze it. It's not a fave, but I'll take it any day over 6.12 and 6.13. I hate those eps. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 19, 2014 18:24:30 GMT
Yeah, as much as I love my duality theory (and I'm not yet ready to abandon it ) I'm starting to come around to the idea that William's been with other women, if not Julia. As recently as season 5-with Anna Fulford. I've been pushed further toward the virgin side of the scale by watching the episode of The Knick that had a woman that caught syphilis from her husband and had lost her nose: it was so prevalent there was a "no noses" club in New York. William is such a cautious man struggling to get into the middle class (a pregnancy would mess that up) and fooling around with the dollymops could easily lead to STDs. If people were so aware of the consequences that there were "No Nose" clubs, then perhaps William was actually cautious enough to engage in abstinence all this time. Harsh 40 years, man!  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 18:28:53 GMT
Having studied this a little at college, there is very little new the way of sexual behavior in the world and kissing has been around a long time. While I cannot cite chapter and verse, I have to believe that our ancestors french kissed a plenty. It's just not the kind of thing you find lots of references to. "Dear Diary, yesterday I was fulling the wool when Richard came in and carried me to the barn where he ravaged me beginning with a kiss that ended with both our tongues exploring each other's mouths." I'm not saying no one ever wrote such a thing, I'm just saying the odds of it being preserved and discovered are very slim. Armed with a complete lack of evidence I maintain my position that open mouth kissing is an age old phenomenon. As to William's future sexual behavior I think there is a clue in his behavior with Anna when they were in the monastery in Bristol. He was not the least bit shy and seemed to know exactly what he was doing. I'm still mad at the villains for interrupting them. I completely agree about the kissing-no way that's a new discovery! It's only been in the last 100 years that people have started to be more open about their sexuality. Also, so, I just finished rewatching Murdoch Identity, and I agree, he's "brash" and forward and yes, there was no hesitation in making the moves on her. He knew what he was doing. I too, would have liked that scene to go on a bit longer. Stupid villains! |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 19, 2014 18:29:33 GMT
There were signs William was interested in Julia from the 1st episode of MM. The only reason they were dragged out into S2 was because William was respectfully still mourning Liza. William has said that he'd always been interested in Julia from the moment they met. As for women, I think he did have experience. He was just outwardly reserved because of Liza, and his personality. If you mean that line when William was drinking with George, I think that was a flub on the part of the writers: because that would mean William was thinking of Julia when he was dating Enid. There are some people who like to think he had an honest (if short) relationship with Anna, too. So that line was just William in retrospect claiming there was never a moment he wasn't in love with Julia - not a record of what actually happened. I do think he was intrigued by Julia in Season 1 (definitely by Still Waters!!!), but by then he had known her for a while. I'm not sure when Liza died within that timeline, though. Regarding William's prior experience, please join us for the next meeting of the Cult of the Logging Camp Sisterhood. In Glass Ceiling I believe William tells CC Stockton that Liza died a year ago. There's been a similar conversation about that line on MMAS and I'm in the writer's flub camp although someone did say that perhaps as Liza was sick and dying that William perhaps did let his mind wander to Julia (my words). I have to admit that I kind of like this idea as it allows for the canon of him liking her from when they met. We know William was thinking of Julia when he was dating Enid, Enid quickly figured that out. I'd like to believe he had a relationship with Anna, I really liked her and thought they made a great, more relaxed, couple. I think there never was a moment he wasn't in love with Julia but perhaps he didn't think of it that way until later. Within the first three episodes of S1 (European order) William lets Liza go, brings Julia a gift and agrees to her accompanying him for a walk amongst the lagoons at Centre Island. We can pretty safely say that even if he didn't think she was the one right from the start (before the series began) he did soon after it started. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 19, 2014 18:32:23 GMT
Armed with a complete lack of evidence I maintain my position that open mouth kissing is an age old phenomenon. As to William's future sexual behavior I think there is a clue in his behavior with Anna when they were in the monastery in Bristol. He was not the least bit shy and seemed to know exactly what he was doing. I'm still mad at the villains for interrupting them. I have a feeling it's somewhere on that Indian temple with all the erotic poses, too. Hmm, it's true that William did know how to undo a corset. Perhaps he had gotten that far with Liza, though. There was also a big difference in that "assessing" look William gives Anna in the pub vs. how shy he has always been around Julia. I don't think he's particularly naive or oblivious - we have a whole thread dedicated to his "perv" moments. But I am starting to take the Virgin Theory more seriously now: so he could have a lot of experience up to, say, third base. Then, nada. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 19, 2014 18:35:09 GMT
We can pretty safely say that even if he didn't think she was the one right from the start (before the series began) he did soon after it started. Their relationship evolved over the course of the series, but when he's drinking with George he makes it sound like he's been kneeling at her altar the whole time - definitely fan service. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Sept 19, 2014 18:36:33 GMT
I think you're right about William noticing Julia more once she starts to dress up (and when she starts to date other people). That's sort of disappointing.  I don't think it was some sort of conscious shallow thing...I think he liked her company, as well as respected her, but once she starts showing that she's definitely a woman and that others might be interested in her, William's forced to admit that he's interested in her as something more than a coworker. It's what spurs him into action-it's like you (or Talbotrail) just said-he has an eye for the ladies, but he's clueless how to go about pursuing them. It's what his mother would have told him had she survived, or his sister if she hadn't become a nun, or what the girls in school would have taught him had he not gone to an all boys Jesuit school. Poor William hasn't had much experience with the ladies. Or at the least, much experience with acceptable ladies.It seems to me that Julia and William are simply flirting in the accepted manner. So you remember the episode about Eaton's where Eve manipulates William? Julia explains to him and Brackenreid how a woman can send certain messages to men in order to manipulate them. In the context of the times, Julia is doing the same thing by dressing more carefully to make herself more attractive to William since they have to wait to get married. William is not blind and he appreciates her efforts on his behalf. She is trying to protect her claim on him. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Sept 19, 2014 18:37:36 GMT
But William would go home and read his copy of the Kama Sutra and practice. Plus, he's a fast learner, so it wouldn't take him long.True.
Hence the need to be convalescing after their honeymoon.  Does anyone have a copy of the Kama Sutra? Any kissing techniques in there? There most certainly are. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 19, 2014 18:38:11 GMT
We can pretty safely say that even if he didn't think she was the one right from the start (before the series began) he did soon after it started. Their relationship evolved over the course of the series, but when he's drinking with George he makes it sound like he's been kneeling at her altar the whole time - definitely fan service. I agree definitely fan service that's why I'm in the writer's flub camp but I do like the other theory. Sometimes we have to fit our theories around the canon. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 18:39:12 GMT
Armed with a complete lack of evidence I maintain my position that open mouth kissing is an age old phenomenon. As to William's future sexual behavior I think there is a clue in his behavior with Anna when they were in the monastery in Bristol. He was not the least bit shy and seemed to know exactly what he was doing. I'm still mad at the villains for interrupting them. I have a feeling it's somewhere on that Indian temple with all the erotic poses, too. Hmm, it's true that William did know how to undo a corset. Perhaps he had gotten that far with Liza, though. There was also a big difference in that "assessing" look William gives Anna in the pub vs. how shy he has always been around Julia. I don't think he's particularly naive or oblivious - we have a whole thread dedicated to his "perv" moments. But I am starting to take the Virgin Theory more seriously now: so he could have a lot of experience up to, say, third base. Then, nada. I could buy into this theory. he's not completely without experience, but he's got some "knowledge" of women, and this allows my duality theory to persist! Thanks, Snacky! Still, what do we do about Anna in season 5, besides it being heavily implied that they slept together, didn't someone go on record saying that's exactly what happened? |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Sept 19, 2014 18:40:54 GMT
If you mean that line when William was drinking with George, I think that was a flub on the part of the writers: because that would mean William was thinking of Julia when he was dating Enid. There are some people who like to think he had an honest (if short) relationship with Anna, too. So that line was just William in retrospect claiming there was never a moment he wasn't in love with Julia - not a record of what actually happened. I do think he was intrigued by Julia in Season 1 (definitely by Still Waters!!!), but by then he had known her for a while. I'm not sure when Liza died within that timeline, though. Regarding William's prior experience, please join us for the next meeting of the Cult of the Logging Camp Sisterhood. Yeah, as much as I love my duality theory (and I'm not yet ready to abandon it ) I'm starting to come around to the idea that William's been with other women, if not Julia. As recently as season 5-with Anna Fulford. OH please, when is the next meeting of the Cult of he Logging Camp Sisterhood? |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 19, 2014 18:43:16 GMT
I completely agree about the kissing-no way that's a new discovery! It's only been in the last 100 years that people have started to be more open about their sexuality. Also, so, I just finished rewatching Murdoch Identity, and I agree, he's "brash" and forward and yes, there was no hesitation in making the moves on her. He knew what he was doing. I too, would have liked that scene to go on a bit longer. Stupid villains! There's absolutely no way it's a new discovery. It developed from weaning babies, it's been going on for eons. However it doesn't mean that it was known all over the world as a way to court your lady friend. But if it had gone on longer we wouldn't be having all these delicious discussions about Williams sex life, or lack thereof. That being said I too wish it had gone on a bit longer....  |
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Post by snacky on Sept 19, 2014 18:43:21 GMT
Also, so, I just finished rewatching Murdoch Identity, and I agree, he's "brash" and forward and yes, there was no hesitation in making the moves on her. He knew what he was doing. I too, would have liked that scene to go on a bit longer. Stupid villains! This is still one of my favorite episodes because the "Outside of Murdoch" experience says so much about William's regular identity at the same time. And plus there's angst, romance, and he get's to do a little heroic ass-kicking, too. And there's a bicycle chase! And, as Murdochic likes to point out, William remembers Julia in lingerie... |
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) I'm starting to come around to the idea that William's been with other women, if not Julia. As recently as season 5-with Anna Fulford. 
