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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:13:45 GMT
As I recall, that was quite graphic scene considering it was a dream and a well placed sheet prevented it from qualifying as porn. I always got the heebeejeebees thinking it was one of the corpse sheets. I don't recall a lot of guilt on William's part over that but Peter Outerbridge played a very different William IMO. And Eus mentioned Julia was much younger, too! Let's classify this with the "Perv William" thread then. There are, perhaps, some thoughts the TV William is having...only implied by glances in the TV version...that the audience is not in on. Presumably these thoughts are of activities that he considers "dark" and would not share with or consider pursuing with Julia...? Is this the representation of "Catholic guilt" on MM? Oh, btw: eclair is Catholic. Though I doubt all that "practicing". He might be able to shed some light on some of this. |
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 5:15:06 GMT
My husband is a non-practicing Catholic so guilt doesn't even hit his emotional horizon. Could he have some cultural/historic insights, though? Perhaps he would understand those "dark places" of which William speaks. From the twenty-first century perspective, my thoughts on this tend to go past "cheeky postcards"! Not a chance. He turned his back on the Catholic Church the day he graduated from high school. In the movies, the director didn't have the luxury of multiple episodes to develop sexual tension. One minute he's thinking about Julia and the next they're doing it, with sound effects, on a gurney in the morgue. Definitely beyond racy picture postcards. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 5:22:01 GMT
As I recall, that was quite graphic scene considering it was a dream and a well placed sheet prevented it from qualifying as porn. I always got the heebeejeebees thinking it was one of the corpse sheets. I don't recall a lot of guilt on William's part over that but Peter Outerbridge played a very different William IMO. I may be projecting the books onto the movie persona. The book Murdoch does feel guilt especially over his illicit relationship with Enid. It keeps him awake at night. I am in full agreement that the movie Murdoch is different. I just like to speculate on what parts of the movies the writers draw on for the series. |
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 5:28:33 GMT
IMO the William of the books, movies and TV are so different. The common thread is his general discomfort with human interaction. People were sort of like butterflies. I find that as you move from the original source, William becomes more charming, likable and handsome.
There have been a couple of crossover plotlines but it actually surprises me that the writers haven't used all of Maureen's clever stories.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 5:29:02 GMT
As I recall, that was quite graphic scene considering it was a dream and a well placed sheet prevented it from qualifying as porn. I always got the heebeejeebees thinking it was one of the corpse sheets. I don't recall a lot of guilt on William's part over that but Peter Outerbridge played a very different William IMO. And Eus mentioned Julia was much younger, too! Let's classify this with the "Perv William" thread then. There are, perhaps, some thoughts the TV William is having...only implied by glances in the TV version...that the audience is not in on. Presumably these thoughts are of activities that he considers "dark" and would not share with or consider pursuing with Julia...? Is this the representation of "Catholic guilt" on MM? Oh, btw: eclair is Catholic. Though I doubt all that "practicing". He might be able to shed some light on some of this. William is much more scientifically minded than the movie Murdoch. I think that's what makes the difference. The church has not always got along well with science, even in the 20 th century. In this sense the tv show may be somewhat unrealistic in that William seems to have a good relationship with his priest. He does not let religion cloud his thinking when he is on a case. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 5:36:04 GMT
IMO the William of the books, movies and TV are so different. The common thread is his general discomfort with human interaction. People were sort of like butterflies. I find that as you move from the original source, William becomes more charming, likable and handsome. There have been a couple of crossover plotlines but it actually surprises me that the writers haven't used all of Maureen's clever stories. As they continue on they may use her ideas more as they explore new ways to keep us entertained. I agree with you: her plots are always complex and full of surprises. They know we love the current William, there is no danger of making him like the book Murdoch, I hope! |
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:36:46 GMT
As I recall, that was quite graphic scene considering it was a dream and a well placed sheet prevented it from qualifying as porn. I always got the heebeejeebees thinking it was one of the corpse sheets. I don't recall a lot of guilt on William's part over that but Peter Outerbridge played a very different William IMO. I may be projecting the books onto the movie persona. The book Murdoch does feel guilt especially over his illicit relationship with Enid. It keeps him awake at night. I am in full agreement that the movie Murdoch is different. I just like to speculate on what parts of the movies the writers draw on for the series. I'm eager to watch those movies, though it seems like they may totally change my opinion of William.  |
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 5:40:22 GMT
And Eus mentioned Julia was much younger, too! Let's classify this with the "Perv William" thread then. There are, perhaps, some thoughts the TV William is having...only implied by glances in the TV version...that the audience is not in on. Presumably these thoughts are of activities that he considers "dark" and would not share with or consider pursuing with Julia...? Is this the representation of "Catholic guilt" on MM? Oh, btw: eclair is Catholic. Though I doubt all that "practicing". He might be able to shed some light on some of this. William is much more scientifically minded than the movie Murdoch. I think that's what makes the difference. The church has not always got along well with science, even in the 20 th century. In this sense the tv show may be somewhat unrealistic in that William seems to have a good relationship with his priest. He does not let religion cloud his thinking when he is on a case. An excellent point. I think it underscores the nucleus of the angsty William. I think that for a very long time the Church has preached 'do as I say' and 'believe what I believe' but in practice, the only thing that mattered was how often one showed up for mass and confession. William was quite attentive to his presence in the Church so his scientific leanings could be either ignored or forgiven. **cough** Catholic hypocrisy **cough**. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:40:48 GMT
I find that as you move from the original source, William becomes more charming, likable and handsome. I didn't find him very likeable at all in the book, and he wouldn't have struck me as handsome with only the book as a reference. My jaw kind of dropped when Maureen Jennings said that Yannick Bisson looked just like the book Murdoch. The book Murdoch struck me as a scruffier character. If he could be called handsome, I would have thought him closer to Higgins because of the sideburns. |
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 5:49:44 GMT
I was just as surprised as you about Maureen's statement. The William of her books wasn't described like Yannick at all. I got stuck on his fur coat and pictured him as almost bear-like.
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:53:07 GMT
William is much more scientifically minded than the movie Murdoch. I think that's what makes the difference. The church has not always got along well with science, even in the 20 th century. In this sense the tv show may be somewhat unrealistic in that William seems to have a good relationship with his priest. He does not let religion cloud his thinking when he is on a case. At the time the Church was facing a serious threat from the idea of the "secular" State, so they were very eager to show themselves as compatible with scientific thinking. That's why William was able to get an excellent scientific education from the Jesuits. Most matters of science were regarded as "adiaphora" or "things indifferent" to the Church. Where science did stray into metaphysic: cosmology as established by the Bible and the Popes, matters pertaining to the nature of God, etc. Catholics were expected to defer to authority of the Church, and they could be excommunicated (and even punished as Heretics) if they did not. But in the late 19th century the Church was eager not to live up to its bad press as the last bastion of Superstition. In short, William had a lot of leeway, and if he did stray, he would be given every opportunity to be guided back into the fold. HOWEVER...I mentioned in another thread that the Catholic STATE was also facing off with the Protestant STATE. So William might find himself in a nightmare scenario that tests his loyalty to Canada vs. the Pope (acting on behalf of Catholic POLITICAL interests). This is precisely why Canadians would find him suspicious as a Catholic "snake in the grass". |
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:55:04 GMT
I was just as surprised as you about Maureen's statement. The William of her books wasn't described like Yannick at all. I got stuck on his fur coat and pictured him as almost bear-like. I think it was seal(?) or some sea creature, and she kept bringing up it's fishy smell. Perhaps this is true to history, but very hard to forget.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 1:44:53 GMT
Yes it was a sealskin coat that smelled bad when it got wet. In the books William was not at all dapper about his dress. He was quite poor and his clothes reflected that. The tv series is a little unrealistic in this aspect. The book or movie Murdoch would not have owned a top hat and tails to wear to the opera. And his suits would not look like they just came from the cleaners !
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Post by snacky on Sept 15, 2014 4:41:46 GMT
Yes it was a sealskin coat that smelled bad when it got wet. In the books William was not at all dapper about his dress. He was quite poor and his clothes reflected that. The tv series is a little unrealistic in this aspect. The book or movie Murdoch would not have owned a top hat and tails to wear to the opera. And his suits would not look like they just came from the cleaners ! I think George sold one of William's inventions.  |
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Post by carco on Sept 23, 2014 15:10:32 GMT
From what I've read and seen of the books (have read a few of them) and the movies (haven't watched yet) are a result of Maureen Jennings' through research into the life and times of people living in Toronto about 1895. The TV show started off in that way but as they gained a wider audience it lost a lot of the dark, gritty nature.
Now that they are actively seeking a young "family" audience, the edgy darkness seems to have given way to ball gowns and top hats and relationships. I'm not complaining, just noting the difference. I also notice a lot of the fan art on the FB page is Disney-ish ...again, just an observation. If nothing else it is evidence that a younger audience is "engaged" and loving the characters and their relationships as much as we are.
The only problem I have with that is that it might mean they will shy away from some of the topics that were being dealt with in those days. When it first aired, The Green Muse was a topic of discussion in blogs etc. on line because of how it handled the topic of abortion and particularly Julia's reply to William that no, she didn't regret the decision.
I'm loving MM and didn't start watching until I saw re-runs last summer and I didn't watch for years because it looked to be dark and serious and boring. So it was the relationships and humour and glamour that sucked me in and then as I watched all past episodes (several times) I could appreciate the earlier darkness and angst.
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