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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 19:27:18 GMT
Yes I know it has been said " the books are the books, the movies are the movies and the tv show is just that" or something like that.
I have just received and watched all three movies this week, just once so far so these are just initial impressions.
If this topic is already in another thread I apologize. I have not seen it.
Warning to all: SPOILERS will probably happen.
The movies are much more like the books, which makes sense as the titles are the same as three of the books: Except the Dying, Poor Tom is Cold, and Under The Dragon's Tail. In them Murdoch ( who pronounces his name more like "Murduck") is a great detective troubled by the ills of the society he lives in, who will stop at nothing to solve a case even if it means stepping on toes. I do not like Brackenreid at all in the films. He is just plain ornery and all too eager to kowtow to the higher ups to close a case.
A major difference between the books and the movies which fed in to the series is the role of Dr. Ogden. A very minor character in the books, she is young and beautiful and spunky. True to the times, she has great difficulty getting respect from the police and judges. Even Murdoch is taken aback when she first appears as the coroner. But he does take a shine to her and she definitely likes him. I was greatly disappointed when she was not in the third movie.
Ettie Weston is a major character in all three movies. In fact she is one of my favourites throughout. As stated in The Green Muse ( which I HAD to watch after the movies!)she and William are well acquainted, even beyond the help she gave solving the murder of her friend Alice. The last movie left me with the impression that more was going to happen between them. And the meeting between William and Ettie in TGM would support that something happened. I wonder what happened to her son? I am surprised that the writers did not explore this further. Maybe they felt they did not have the time? Or maybe the actress was not available.
Yes I noticed that for the movies and books I have referred to Murdoch and for the tv show I have used William. IMHO this is in keeping with the portrayals within.
Thoughts anyone?
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Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 19:40:13 GMT
A major difference between the books and the movies which fed in to the series is the role of Dr. Ogden. A very minor character in the books, she is young and beautiful and spunky. True to the times, she has great difficulty getting respect from the police and judges. Even Murdoch is taken aback when she first appears as the coroner. But he does take a shine to her and she definitely likes him. Wow what a bummer. Too bad the ship wasn't luxury cruised launched in the movies. It sounds like she's actually too young for him in the movies.  The writers probably felt this would complicate things too much for the William/Julia story, especially for casual viewers. Especially at the start of the series when they were still trying to build an audience. While squirreled away on a backwater TV channel. lol, the only thing worse than Anna showing up with a son now would be Ettie, Queen of the Music Academy, showing up with a son. *sound of a million shipper heart attacks* *Planet Earth explodes* *Doctor Who is lonely again* Good way to do it! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 19:56:19 GMT
I should have clarified: Ettie's son is not Murdoch's! The boy was taken away from her as an infant.
He was instrumental in their reunion so to inquire would have been just good manners.
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Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 20:01:10 GMT
I should have clarified: Ettie's son is not Murdoch's! The boy was taken away from her as an infant. He was instrumental in their reunion so to inquire would have been just good manners. That doesn't rule out her having another son, and her giving William the son that Julia can't give him. And William would feel obliged to meet his responsibilities.   Credit: 22OntarioStreetEven if the writers felt they just couldn't throw another obstacle in front of the wedding, this would be an interesting wrench to throw into the wheelworks after the marriage... please don't kill me
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 14, 2014 13:42:33 GMT
My biggest problem with the Ettie having William's child is that she left for Winnepeg in S3! She would be presenting him with a 4 year old and she's just now getting around to bringing her baby daddy into the picture? Too far fetched. Besides, "The Green Muse" was a watershed moment in the Jilliam ship. He wouldn't renew any relations with Ettie when his feelings were so strong for Julia. We've endlessly discussed Wm's pervy goggle at Julia's backside but has anyone noticed the snippet of Julia's face when she enters the house and sees William talking with Ettie? (Damn no Grande Caps). You can practically hear her "Hmmmph!".
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Post by snacky on Jul 14, 2014 16:31:58 GMT
My biggest problem with the Ettie having William's child is that she left for Winnepeg in S3! She would be presenting him with a 4 year old and she's just now getting around to bringing her baby daddy into the picture? Too far fetched. Besides, "The Green Muse" was a watershed moment in the Jilliam ship. He wouldn't renew any relations with Ettie when his feelings were so strong for Julia. We've endlessly discussed Wm's pervy goggle at Julia's backside but has anyone noticed the snippet of Julia's face when she enters the house and sees William talking with Ettie? (Damn no Grande Caps). You can practically hear her "Hmmmph!". She could have already had the child and not told William about it for some reason? But now she is in difficulties and needs William to acknowledge him/her. Also, we're not talking about William renewing any feeling for Ettie or leaving Julia for Ettie (though Julia might make a preemptive strike and leave William, thinking he might leave her). We're just talking about what might happen if Ettie returns with a child that William is responsible for. If William is already married, then that reduces the possibility of Ettie demanding marriage, but it creates all sorts of interesting complications for the W/J relationship. I've noticed a lot of "hmmph!" moments in Season 1 - have to watch TGM again tonight and try to catch that one!!!  Julia must realize the possibility exists: after all since she had a "past", William could have one, too - and the past always comes back to haunt us. Anyway, as long as Julia can't have a child herself, this is the turn of a events that would stab her right through the heart. (If we want to talk about stabbing William through the heart, we can go back to talking about excommunication, hehe. ) Ps. Though this approach would probably devolve into melodrama, if William does have a child, the way the writers would probably conclude the matter is - after arguing and misery - the mother would either die or leave. Wiliam and Julia would adopt the child. Julia would continue to seek to have her own or take this as a gift and a sign to resign herself to the fact she can't have her own. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:20:05 GMT
I should have clarified: Ettie's son is not Murdoch's! The boy was taken away from her as an infant. He was instrumental in their reunion so to inquire would have been just good manners. That doesn't rule out her having another son, and her giving William the son that Julia can't give him. And William would feel obliged to meet his responsibilities. Credit: 22OntarioStreetEven if the writers felt they just couldn't throw another obstacle in front of the wedding, this would be an interesting wrench to throw into the wheelworks after the marriage... please don't kill me
Ahh ok. The child would have been conceived after the movies but before the series starts. And I guess Ettie's pride might have prevented her from mentioning the child to William as he did not inquire after the son he knew about. In the movie her first son was already 7. If she and William did have a relationship that resulted in a child, and it ended before he knew about it for whatever reason, the kid would be at least 7, with the older one at least 14. The idea has legs Snacky! Keep on being fearless! |
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Post by snacky on Jul 15, 2014 16:28:25 GMT
The idea has legs Snacky! Keep on being fearless! I'll keep it in my back pocket for that time after the marriage has been on a while, and people start to complain MM is "boring"...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 23:46:56 GMT
The idea has legs Snacky! Keep on being fearless! I'll keep it in my back pocket for that time after the marriage has been on a while, and people start to complain MM is "boring"... By then the kids will be even older. So much more interesting to work with. Maybe one of them could even be caught up in a case. Ok fanfic anyone? |
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Post by snacky on Jul 16, 2014 1:52:56 GMT
By then the kids will be even older. So much more interesting to work with. Maybe one of them could even be caught up in a case. Oh nice one! Then we can replace Julia!Angst and the soap opera with William's mixed feelings about responsibility and him getting played by a possible con artist. runs away
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 4:38:56 GMT
William's fantasy life: in the movies he fantasizes about getting frisky with Julia in the morgue on a gurney. True to the books, theses fantasies occur at night when he is trying to sleep, not while he is in the same room with Julia. In the movies he seems racked by guilt for theses fantasies. The TV William does not seem too absorbed in what we call Catholic guilt over anything sexual. He is repressed and cautious to a fault, but not full of guilt over having those feelings. Unfortunately for many the guilt is all too much a part of Catholic thinking, especially for those of my parents generation. Yes I was brought up Catholic, but I am certainly no expert in the practices if 1901. I trust the writers to do their job in researching that info.
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 4:46:25 GMT
William's fantasy life: in the movies he fantasizes about getting frisky with Julia in the morgue on a gurney. True to the books, theses fantasies occur at night when he is trying to sleep, not while he is in the same room with Julia. In the movies he seems racked by guilt for theses fantasies. The TV William does not seem too absorbed in what we call Catholic guilt over anything sexual. He is repressed and cautious to a fault, but not full of guilt over having those feelings. Unfortunately for many the guilt is all too much a part of Catholic thinking, especially for those of my parents generation. Yes I was brought up Catholic, but I am certainly no expert in the practices if 1901. I trust the writers to do their job in researching that info. I agree with you on all points. My husband is a non-practicing Catholic so guilt doesn't even hit his emotional horizon. His mother, on the other hand, continued her devotions until her death at the age of 83. She actually expressed guilt that she was enjoying the freedom in her life as a widow! |
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 4:55:36 GMT
William's fantasy life: in the movies he fantasizes about getting frisky with Julia in the morgue on a gurney. lol, I'll have to add that to the perv thread. In the books I read he didn't seem so guilty: more inexperienced and a bit pervy just because of that. I'm not sure if I would like to see more Catholic guilt or not. On the one hand, it's almost historical at this point. On the other hand, it's almost too much complexity for an entertaining TV shows. I know that I cringed most of the time when Scully's Catholicism made an appearance on The X-Files because it always seemed Faith with a capital F, and not really believable. MM has been doing religion in just the right dose, IMHO. But I guess I would like to see William have to pay the consequences of serious belief from time to time. It would have been nice to see him get in trouble for standing by Julia during her divorce. I'm still a big fan of a case leading to his temporary excommunication or big threats from the Church. This is an age where the Church was entangled in political institutions, and their matters could carry very high stakes. What if The Prime Minister wants one outcome and the Pope wants another? But back to the Catholic guilt...I think we did see a bit of that when William referred to the "dark places"? I'm curious where, within marriage, he would draw the line at what kind of intimate relations he can enjoy with Julia. But I guess I brought that up before, re: Confession. |
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Post by lovemondays on Jul 26, 2014 5:02:59 GMT
William's fantasy life: in the movies he fantasizes about getting frisky with Julia in the morgue on a gurney. As I recall, that was quite graphic scene considering it was a dream and a well placed sheet prevented it from qualifying as porn. I always got the heebeejeebees thinking it was one of the corpse sheets. I don't recall a lot of guilt on William's part over that but Peter Outerbridge played a very different William IMO. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 26, 2014 5:08:04 GMT
My husband is a non-practicing Catholic so guilt doesn't even hit his emotional horizon. Could he have some cultural/historic insights, though? Perhaps he would understand those "dark places" of which William speaks. From the twenty-first century perspective, my thoughts on this tend to go past "cheeky postcards"! |
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Julia must realize the possibility exists: after all since she had a "past", William could have one, too - and the past always comes back to haunt us.