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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 5:47:36 GMT
My point is more that she decided to withdraw without discussing it further with William. I actually think Julia's reasons for withdrawing have some merit. It's not like she has shied away from controversy before. I think what intrigues me is her selflessness in favour of the consequences to William's career. She has no fear whatsoever about her own status but I this she is very aware of, and concerned with, his. Uh oh - this sounds kind of like she's pulling a "Buffalo escape" again. She's running away because she's imagining/calculating/anticipating a lot of horrible consequences that may or may not occur. She's getting out of the game before she can get burned...but would she have been burned? Or did she just sabotage herself? I would like William to see this pattern and point it out, please.  |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 5:49:08 GMT
I don't want either. Too much angst for me. I like the Forensics Lab idea. I too thought Braxie crossed a line when he told William to wear the pants. It's one thing to express concern about his reputation, but it is quite another to threaten his masculinity. And I like how William shut him down. William was wearing the pants there.  By the way, all this talk of William wearing/not wearing pants is really sending my mind to all sorts of interesting places...
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 5:53:55 GMT
I wouldn't characterize it as emasculating William either. I understand the dynamics of he-supports-her/she-supports-him in this VERY modern marriage. My point is more that she decided to withdraw without discussing it further with William. I actually think Julia's reasons for withdrawing have some merit. It's not like she has shied away from controversy before. I think what intrigues me is her selflessness in favour of the consequences to William's career. She has no fear whatsoever about her own status but I this she is very aware of, and concerned with, his. Perhaps because all William has ever really had is his career and she doesn't want to be the one to put an end to it. I know he doesn't need it now to live but I'm sure she would rather he not be fired. Considering William is not a man of independent means, and a major part of his "manhood" seems to be stemming from his ability to at least support himself and live a responsible life (since Julia doesn't need him to support her), I think Julia realizes it would pretty much destroy William to lose his job. Also his entire personal identity is tied up in being the "Great Detective". His quasi-family is at Station House 4. What would William be if he were suddenly deprived of all those things? Julia wouldn't want to take the risk of finding out...!  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 3, 2014 6:09:52 GMT
Perhaps because all William has ever really had is his career and she doesn't want to be the one to put an end to it. I know he doesn't need it now to live but I'm sure she would rather he not be fired. Considering William is not a man of independent means, and a major part of his "manhood" seems to be stemming from his ability to at least support himself and live a responsible life (since Julia doesn't need him to support her), I think Julia realizes it would pretty much destroy William to lose his job. Also his entire personal identity is tied up in being the "Great Detective". His quasi-family is at Station House 4. What would William be if he were suddenly deprived of all those things? Julia wouldn't want to take the risk of finding out...! Yep. That's Julia's non-negotiable. She was willing to risk jail, attacks on her person and character, and maybe even the loss of her own job(does she still have one?) but William's identity is in his job-she can't and won't be responsible for him losing that. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:11:33 GMT
Considering William is not a man of independent means, and a major part of his "manhood" seems to be stemming from his ability to at least support himself and live a responsible life (since Julia doesn't need him to support her), I think Julia realizes it would pretty much destroy William to lose his job. Also his entire personal identity is tied up in being the "Great Detective". His quasi-family is at Station House 4. What would William be if he were suddenly deprived of all those things? Julia wouldn't want to take the risk of finding out...! Yep. That's Julia's non-negotiable. She was willing to risk jail, attacks on her person and character, and maybe even the loss of her own job(does she still have one?) but William's identity is in his job-she can't and won't be responsible for him losing that. Plus she hasn't even seen the house he's building for her yet.  |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:14:11 GMT
Getting close! I seem to be fine with the episodes...it's all the speculation that's killing me, lol! I try and not speculate to far ahead. I've learnt that one. AKA: season 4 My crystal ball has been quite forthcoming so far this season, but foggy for the latter half of the season. There aren't enough spoilers out there yet for me to latch on to and speculate about...  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 3, 2014 6:14:21 GMT
Yep. That's Julia's non-negotiable. She was willing to risk jail, attacks on her person and character, and maybe even the loss of her own job(does she still have one?) but William's identity is in his job-she can't and won't be responsible for him losing that. Plus she hasn't even seen the house he's building for her yet. I'm still wondering where he's going to find the time for that between his very demanding job and all the sexing. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:17:19 GMT
Plus she hasn't even seen the house he's building for her yet. I'm still wondering where he's going to find the time for that between his very demanding job and all the sexing. True, I think he didn't account for his entire schedule when he was planning on building this house. On the other hand, perhaps this is why he agreed to the hotel - the conveniences gave him enough extra time to do a little work on the weekends. Picture this: sweaty William hewing wood and hauling logs. Appreciative Julia as a spectator, just waiting for the chance to offer her services during work breaks...
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 3, 2014 6:21:07 GMT
I'm still wondering where he's going to find the time for that between his very demanding job and all the sexing. True, I think he didn't account for his entire schedule when he was planning on building this house. On the other hand, perhaps this is why he agreed to the hotel - the conveniences gave him enough extra time to do a little work on the weekends. Picture this: sweaty William hewing wood and hauling logs. Appreciative Julia as a spectator, just waiting for the chance to offer her services during work breaks...
Well, yeah. Of course she'll be "supervising". |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:30:57 GMT
Observation: After watching the episode again, I think one of the reasons Emily was so bittier, was the fact that she idolizes Julia, and in a way her idol disappointed her and let her down. Another point, the unmarried Julia with only her reputation at stake would have run hands down, but both Brackenreid and (Murdoch-in a way) pointed out that what they do effects the reputaion of the other, and Julia realized this, and I dont think she was willing to stake his reputation as well as her own. That thing I mentioned eariler of society seeing them as one. Anyway i think im going over well trodden ground now. She's just reminded of the last time they had a scandalous scheme together and Julia suddenly backed out. Hence her comment, "Let me guess, the detective does not approve." The real reason Emily didn't get married to Jerome was cuz she didn't want to be bossed around...and he probably wouldn't have approved of her cutting up dead naked men all day. This is why the presumption that women need to get married at all is damned annoying. And all economic pressures in society pushing women to do so are damned annoying! Guess what - women can be happy doing their own thing! If they live alone that doesn't mean they are lonely - it means they have complete privacy. It means they are unfettered. It means they can do whatever the heck they want. It means they don't have to consider the safety, needs, or goals or another person. It means they are undistracted while pursuing their own work. It means they can focus. It means they can take all the credit. It means they have the most choices. If a woman of the late 19th century/early 20th century had that same option, who is to say she wouldn't feel the same way? Herland, the 1915 utopia written by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, very sharply depicts marriage and the home as a prison and a condition of servitude for women. Within the home, women are contained and subsumed by he needs and goals of their husbands. Thus, utopia does away with "homes" all together! This is 1915. Utopian women have short hair, wear comfortable unisex clothes, are physically exercised and strong, and have lives that aren't distorted around the single huge event of Marriage. Even the ones that end up forming a special bond of love with the male outsiders that narrate the story recognize a home is a trap. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine at least some of these thoughts existed 10-15 years earlier... |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:34:42 GMT
True, I think he didn't account for his entire schedule when he was planning on building this house. On the other hand, perhaps this is why he agreed to the hotel - the conveniences gave him enough extra time to do a little work on the weekends. Picture this: sweaty William hewing wood and hauling logs. Appreciative Julia as a spectator, just waiting for the chance to offer her services during work breaks...
Well, yeah. Of course she'll be "supervising". I'd like her to be proving her physical strength in some way, too, as well...Charlotte Perkins Gilman has me obsessing over the cult of physically strong women...  Ps. One aspect of Gilman you would like: she considered herself a "humanist" not a "feminist". I still think we need the word "feminism", personally - or at least until the range of crimes against and injustices toward women is admitted and on the table. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:44:16 GMT
I've been thinking about this a fair bit. Julia backed down from her stance on women's reproductive rights when Darcy made a fuss. She gave in to her man's ambitions and needs at the time. In some respects she's done the same thing for William, only at Brax's behest. William is still with her 100% (awww, love it!) but she is backing down again for the sake of her man. I understand Emily's frustration...STICK WITH THE PROGRAM WOMAN!! This is another instance of Julia making a unilateral decision that affects both of them, without reaching a consensus with William! She's protecting him even though he has agreed to deal with whatever repercussions come his way. Talk about emasculating our hero! Grrrrr. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this was a case of nervous Julia over-reacting to stuff she is only imagining. One wonders if Julia is secretly a really great chess player, and she's being undermined by her emotional tendency to play blind chess for both sides 30 moves ahead...  Also, I wonder if William can see this pattern and whether it sheds some light on some of Julia's past behavior for him. If so, perhaps he will talk this out with her over some midnight cuddles... |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:50:20 GMT
Hmm, you've just made me think. The Edison's relationship was a rather large part of the episode. Maybe this was to set up a contrast between their father/son relationship and Thomas/William's 'father/son' relationship.  I watched the Behind the Scenes, and apparently this was one of the reasons why they brought the Edisons into the episode, for that bickering relationship. hmm, when I watch the episode again, I'm going to have to do it with William/Brackenreid in mind. But offhand...I'm not really seeing it. Oh wait: Edison Jr. is ruining Edison Sr.'s good name. Julia may ruin William's name, which will ruin Brackenreid's name, which will ultimately make a laughingstock of all the men in Toronto. Maybe that's it. But in the end Edison Jr. will change his name. What's the message there? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 3, 2014 6:56:14 GMT
I watched the Behind the Scenes, and apparently this was one of the reasons why they brought the Edisons into the episode, for that bickering relationship. hmm, when I watch the episode again, I'm going to have to do it with William/Brackenreid in mind. But offhand...I'm not really seeing it. Oh wait: Edison Jr. is ruining Edison Sr.'s good name. Julia may ruin William's name, which will ruin Brackenreid's name, which will ultimately make a laughingstock of all the men in Toronto. Maybe that's it. But in the end Edison Jr. will change his name. What's the message there? It's a compare/contrast. There's similarities between the two, but not everything will match. It was a nice juxtaposition. Edison's concern was coming from a place of control and image. Brax' view was coming from image, but image based in concern. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 3, 2014 6:59:31 GMT
hmm, when I watch the episode again, I'm going to have to do it with William/Brackenreid in mind. But offhand...I'm not really seeing it. Oh wait: Edison Jr. is ruining Edison Sr.'s good name. Julia may ruin William's name, which will ruin Brackenreid's name, which will ultimately make a laughingstock of all the men in Toronto. Maybe that's it. But in the end Edison Jr. will change his name. What's the message there? It's a compare/contrast. There's similarities between the two, but not everything will match. It was a nice juxtaposition. Edison's concern was coming from a place of control and image. Brax' view was coming from image, but image based in concern. Also William stands up to his "father", while Edison's son just tries to weasel out of stuff. |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT