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Post by Hodge on Oct 8, 2014 20:37:42 GMT
I don't think longer than 6 months Snacky, that would be an awfully long time. Somewhere from 4 to 6 months would be my guess. Oops that was a typo - I meant to type 3. I do think William and Julia have dawdled past the time involved for "respect for Brackenreid's injuries" though. You don't seem taken with the "decline in William's prospects" theory. What do you think is going on? I'm not taken by the decline because I really don't see a decline. He's happy with his job, if he wasn't he wouldn't still be there. The Pinkertons would probably be very happy to have him if he was interested. He's engaged to the woman he loves and 'soon' to be married, as far as I see things are are motoring along nicely. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 8, 2014 20:48:30 GMT
Oops that was a typo - I meant to type 3. I do think William and Julia have dawdled past the time involved for "respect for Brackenreid's injuries" though. You don't seem taken with the "decline in William's prospects" theory. What do you think is going on? I'm not taken by the decline because I really don't see a decline. He's happy with his job, if he wasn't he wouldn't still be there. The Pinkertons would probably be very happy to have him if he was interested. He's engaged to the woman he loves and 'soon' to be married, as far as I see things are are motoring along nicely. William is happy with what he's doing now, but he's also a very prudent man that plans for the future. Which means he sees the ramifications of his prospects for the future. He may motor along fine as a detective, but what if Julia expects something more? She did seem to be eyeing the pricey neighborhood. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 8, 2014 21:03:10 GMT
I'm not taken by the decline because I really don't see a decline. He's happy with his job, if he wasn't he wouldn't still be there. The Pinkertons would probably be very happy to have him if he was interested. He's engaged to the woman he loves and 'soon' to be married, as far as I see things are are motoring along nicely. William is happy with what he's doing now, but he's also a very prudent man that plans for the future. Which means he sees the ramifications of his prospects for the future. He may motor along fine as a detective, but what if Julia expects something more? She did seem to be eyeing the pricey neighborhood. Julia knows his prospects are limited, she's known that for some time now. If she expects something more then she's engaged to the wrong man! She's already had an ambitious husband, look where that got her. She's not blind to the discrimination, it was quite evident at her trial that people thought it quite inappropriate that she was dating a Catholic. Yes she's eyeing the pricey neighbourhood but it was only a comment about it being nice and she probably realizes that they likely won't be living there. If William wants more from his job then he'll have to move, either to a city that doesn't discriminate or change jobs entirely. I'm not entirely sure he does plan for the future, he seems to be very limited in his view of the future. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 8, 2014 21:20:13 GMT
Julia knows his prospects are limited, she's known that for some time now. If she expects something more then she's engaged to the wrong man! She's already had an ambitious husband, look where that got her. She's not blind to the discrimination, it was quite evident at her trial that people thought it quite inappropriate that she was dating a Catholic. Yes she's eyeing the pricey neighbourhood but it was only a comment about it being nice and she probably realizes that they likely won't be living there. If William wants more from his job then he'll have to move, either to a city that doesn't discriminate or change jobs entirely. I'm not entirely sure he does plan for the future, he seems to be very limited in his view of the future. Julia knows in theory that William's prospects are limited, yet she may not understand the realities of his financial limitations. Thus she lets her higher expectations slip. Or she just assumes she will pay for things since she has independent means, not thinking through how this might wound his male pride. I think William's reaction to Julia's remark shows that her remark wasn't casual at all - that there is an underlying tension about where they will live. Her remark wouldn't have triggered that tone of voice in William if those stakes hadn't been involved. William is in quite a trap: he certainly doesn't want to move since all that he considers his "family" is in Toronto. Julia will have to settle for William as-is. We all know Julia is willing to do this: she has no problem being a woman of independent means, too. But I think William still needs to come to terms with this idea somehow. |
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Post by carco on Oct 8, 2014 22:02:25 GMT
He doesn't seem to mind the tie being off in situations where there are other people around. I'm thinking here of Midnight Train to Kingston, Stairway to Heaven and Bloodlust particularly, but that tie better darn well stay on when there's just the two of them around. Yes, this! That tie is truly starting to reach mythical powers status. If we ever do see him without it alone in her presence, is that going to be code for intimacy is about to happen or has just happened? So, like, is he going to be the first Chippendale or something?  Everything can come off except the black tie? Ok, have to go away and dwell on that thought for a while......  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 8, 2014 22:52:28 GMT
Julia knows in theory that William's prospects are limited, yet she may not understand the realities of his financial limitations. Thus she lets her higher expectations slip. Or she just assumes she will pay for things since she has independent means, not thinking through how this might wound his male pride. I think William's reaction to Julia's remark shows that her remark wasn't casual at all - that there is an underlying tension about where they will live. Her remark wouldn't have triggered that tone of voice in William if those stakes hadn't been involved. William is in quite a trap: he certainly doesn't want to move since all that he considers his "family" is in Toronto. Julia will have to settle for William as-is. We all know Julia is willing to do this: she has no problem being a woman of independent means, too. But I think William still needs to come to terms with this idea somehow. Julia does know William's prospects are limited even if she's had to figure it out for herself i.e. he's still doing the same thing, in the same station house however many years after they met despite being the 'best detective in the world'. I'm sure she realizes that means his financial situation hasn't improved over the years. I do agree that she probably thinks she'll just pay for everything regardless of how William feels. She can be quite selfish at times though this is probably more selfless. I have to admit, I've had quite enough of William angst, it's time for some joyfulness. I'm going to think good thoughts and hope things work out fine. |
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Post by carco on Oct 8, 2014 23:13:19 GMT
Julia knows his prospects are limited, she's known that for some time now. If she expects something more then she's engaged to the wrong man! She's already had an ambitious husband, look where that got her. She's not blind to the discrimination, it was quite evident at her trial that people thought it quite inappropriate that she was dating a Catholic. Yes she's eyeing the pricey neighbourhood but it was only a comment about it being nice and she probably realizes that they likely won't be living there. If William wants more from his job then he'll have to move, either to a city that doesn't discriminate or change jobs entirely. I'm not entirely sure he does plan for the future, he seems to be very limited in his view of the future. Julia knows in theory that William's prospects are limited, yet she may not understand the realities of his financial limitations. Thus she lets her higher expectations slip. Or she just assumes she will pay for things since she has independent means, not thinking through how this might wound his male pride. I think William's reaction to Julia's remark shows that her remark wasn't casual at all - that there is an underlying tension about where they will live. Her remark wouldn't have triggered that tone of voice in William if those stakes hadn't been involved. William is in quite a trap: he certainly doesn't want to move since all that he considers his "family" is in Toronto. Julia will have to settle for William as-is. We all know Julia is willing to do this: she has no problem being a woman of independent means, too. But I think William still needs to come to terms with this idea somehow. We were introduced to her and got to know her as a well educated woman who came from a well to do family that enjoyed a place in the city's societal circles....and yet she rejected that and lived life on her terms. She didn't care much about clothes or fashions. Somewhere along the way and for whatever reasons (I know we discussed this at length in the past) she seems to have "caved" or possibly just matured and developed some fashion sense and re-awakened her early years experiences of the arts, dancing and fine dining. Maybe it was Ruby's doing or probably from having married Darcy and being thrown into that world again. But all through that I have never seen or sensed that Julia expected more of William. What I do sense is that while she presently accepts the inevitable when it comes to his reactions to change, will that knee-jerk negative reaction become a sense of irritation to her over time, after they are married. William is a brilliant man but when it comes to his "gadgets" and "gizmos" we have often mentioned how odd it is that he can develop these things but can't see how they could be used in the future....(think micro-waves and potato baking rooms!) When she mentioned in passing that the area seemed nice, he saw only that it would likely be too expensive. Once again, she laughed it off but that can be really annoying if you get that reaction time after time and especially when you are having to build a life with that person. Getting off topic a bit, I think the Inspector has ID'd the change that the police (including Murdoch) are going to face day in and day out from hereon, they don't rule the roost in Toronto anymore. What they say doesn't necessarily go and respect for the uniform and the position is nothing like the good old days. Everything is changing. Julia is becoming a staunch supporter of women's rights and thanks to her suggestion, the woman are fighting with the police and being arrested -- on the streets, in public! William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Even if he CAN let her out of jail (assuming she and/or Emily are jailed....looks like Emily is behind bars anyway), its quite possible he will choose to leave her (and/or Emily) to do her/their time in jail. I don't think he'd care how that would "look" (detective's bride to be in jail) but he will know Julia would be furious with him since she knows he let Eva Moon out of jail instead of "choosing" her. I'm really looking forward to Pt 2!! |
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Post by ziggy on Oct 8, 2014 23:48:37 GMT
Julia knows in theory that William's prospects are limited, yet she may not understand the realities of his financial limitations. Thus she lets her higher expectations slip. Or she just assumes she will pay for things since she has independent means, not thinking through how this might wound his male pride. I think William's reaction to Julia's remark shows that her remark wasn't casual at all - that there is an underlying tension about where they will live. Her remark wouldn't have triggered that tone of voice in William if those stakes hadn't been involved. William is in quite a trap: he certainly doesn't want to move since all that he considers his "family" is in Toronto. Julia will have to settle for William as-is. We all know Julia is willing to do this: she has no problem being a woman of independent means, too. But I think William still needs to come to terms with this idea somehow. We were introduced to her and got to know her as a well educated woman who came from a well to do family that enjoyed a place in the city's societal circles....and yet she rejected that and lived life on her terms. She didn't care much about clothes or fashions. Somewhere along the way and for whatever reasons (I know we discussed this at length in the past) she seems to have "caved" or possibly just matured and developed some fashion sense and re-awakened her early years experiences of the arts, dancing and fine dining. Maybe it was Ruby's doing or probably from having married Darcy and being thrown into that world again. But all through that I have never seen or sensed that Julia expected more of William. What I do sense is that while she presently accepts the inevitable when it comes to his reactions to change, will that knee-jerk negative reaction become a sense of irritation to her over time, after they are married. William is a brilliant man but when it comes to his "gadgets" and "gizmos" we have often mentioned how odd it is that he can develop these things but can't see how they could be used in the future....(think micro-waves and potato baking rooms!) When she mentioned in passing that the area seemed nice, he saw only that it would likely be too expensive. Once again, she laughed it off but that can be really annoying if you get that reaction time after time and especially when you are having to build a life with that person. Getting off topic a bit, I think the Inspector has ID'd the change that the police (including Murdoch) are going to face day in and day out from hereon, they don't rule the roost in Toronto anymore. What they say doesn't necessarily go and respect for the uniform and the position is nothing like the good old days. Everything is changing. Julia is becoming a staunch supporter of women's rights and thanks to her suggestion, the woman are fighting with the police and being arrested -- on the streets, in public! William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Even if he CAN let her out of jail (assuming she and/or Emily are jailed....looks like Emily is behind bars anyway), its quite possible he will choose to leave her (and/or Emily) to do her/their time in jail. I don't think he'd care how that would "look" (detective's bride to be in jail) but he will know Julia would be furious with him since she knows he let Eva Moon out of jail instead of "choosing" her. I'm really looking forward to Pt 2!! Very well said, Carco. I couldn’t have put it better if I spent a week writing this up myself. I don’t have much more to add to your perceptions. My main letdown with part 1 was having to wait a whole month (err, I mean a week  ) to see pt 2. The Inspector, as usual, has knocked the nail in the head and I too look forward to part 2 and a few more episodes further into the season to see how all this plays out. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 9, 2014 1:10:36 GMT
Yes, this! That tie is truly starting to reach mythical powers status. If we ever do see him without it alone in her presence, is that going to be code for intimacy is about to happen or has just happened? So, like, is he going to be the first Chippendale or something? Everything can come off except the black tie? Ok, have to go away and dwell on that thought for a while...... That lapel twiddle in On the Waterfront is really messing with my head now. Was that fan service...? |
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Post by snacky on Oct 9, 2014 1:15:08 GMT
I'm going to think good thoughts and hope things work out fine. Things will certainly work out fine in the end. Those crazy kid are destined to be together. By the way I got a nice Zazzle coupon in the email today, so I gave into temptation and bought that t-shirt I designed a long time ago. I couldn't take a screenshot that's big enough to read, but the badge on the hat says: Station House No. 4, Toronto Police Department. How's that for a joyful thought?   |
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Post by snacky on Oct 9, 2014 2:04:31 GMT
Somewhere along the way and for whatever reasons (I know we discussed this at length in the past) she seems to have "caved" or possibly just matured and developed some fashion sense What I do sense is that while she presently accepts the inevitable when it comes to his reactions to change, will that knee-jerk negative reaction become a sense of irritation to her over time, after they are married. William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Whether we like it or not, I think Julia is dressing up for William. And William appreciates physical beauty. I agree that Julia can get irritated at William's foibles. That's part of what I like about MM. It incorporates those little irritations which make the relationship more "real". Before Talbotrail goes postal, I don't think such things have to destroy the relationship - but they do complicate the relationship and have to be dealt with in some way. The question on Julia's side then becomes: will she have to nag? Can William change? I don't think William would let either Julia or Emily stew in jail - but he wouldn't be able to break them out unless the other station house conveniently left for a wedding! Even though William is open-minded, circumstances are changing too fast for his worldview to shift. I'm sure he has no problem with women's suffrage. But women paying the bills...? |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 9, 2014 2:26:38 GMT
Whether we like it or not, I think Julia is dressing up for William. And William appreciates physical beauty. I agree that Julia can get irritated at William's foibles. That's part of what I like about MM. It incorporates those little irritations which make the relationship more "real". Before Talbotrail goes postal, I don't think such things have to destroy the relationship - but they do complicate the relationship and have to be dealt with in some way. The question on Julia's side then becomes: will she have to nag? Can William change? I don't think William would let either Julia or Emily stew in jail - but he wouldn't be able to break them out unless the other station house conveniently left for a wedding! Even though William is open-minded, circumstances are changing too fast for his worldview to shift. I'm sure he has no problem with women's suffrage. But women paying the bills...? I don't go postal for anything.  I love the foibles, that's what makes the relationship interesting. I actually enjoyed their first row in Lovers in a Murderous Time. I thought it was about time the air was cleared. What I don't like is angst for angst sake, it's as bad as catering to the shippers. We've had enough angst to last a lifetime with this relationship, I'd just like to see things go smoothly, at least for a little time. Don't know if you noticed but the number on the uniform collar was 4, they should be taken to SH4's jail. William may just have to get used to being a kept man ... unless his Cdn. Bonds have a good rate of return and he's secretly been making as much as George and his stocks. Perhaps they'll mature just at the right time.... |
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Post by snacky on Oct 9, 2014 2:41:11 GMT
I love the foibles, that's what makes the relationship interesting. I actually enjoyed their first row in Lovers in a Murderous Time. I thought it was about time the air was cleared. What I don't like is angst for angst sake, it's as bad as catering to the shippers. We've had enough angst to last a lifetime with this relationship, I'd just like to see things go smoothly, at least for a little time. Don't know if you noticed but the number on the uniform collar was 4, they should be taken to SH4's jail. William may just have to get used to being a kept man ... unless his Cdn. Bonds have a good rate of return and he's secretly been making as much as George and his stocks. Perhaps they'll mature just at the right time.... Wait those were Station House 4 coppers roughing up the ladies???!!! Aren't they all down at the docks? That's confusing.  It would be very interesting if William did just adapt to being a "kept man". Julia would have to talk him into it gradually, I'm sure. The whole point of the angst discussion, though, is William has those feelings, and they can't just be run over roughshod. I'm a bit worried about Carco's take on it, though. If Julia just reads this as William being "auto-negative/cautious", then she will just be irritated about it instead of delving a little more deeply into William's feelings about the difference in their financial resources. The writers could always spring your happy theory on us, too: perhaps William is a secret millionaire and that detached tone of voice was the "I've got a secret" one... Hey, he had to get the money for that French restaurant and top hat from somewhere! |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 9, 2014 3:41:59 GMT
Wait those were Station House 4 coppers roughing up the ladies???!!! Aren't they all down at the docks? That's confusing. It would be very interesting if William did just adapt to being a "kept man". Julia would have to talk him into it gradually, I'm sure. The whole point of the angst discussion, though, is William has those feelings, and they can't just be run over roughshod. I'm a bit worried about Carco's take on it, though. If Julia just reads this as William being "auto-negative/cautious", then she will just be irritated about it instead of delving a little more deeply into William's feelings about the difference in their financial resources. The writers could always spring your happy theory on us, too: perhaps William is a secret millionaire and that detached tone of voice was the "I've got a secret" one... Hey, he had to get the money for that French restaurant and top hat from somewhere! Yep, SH4 coppers. Looks like William doesn't break J/E out of jail though as they're in court next week. Now you're talking! He'll never be as rich as George though. I always wondered how he could afford the top hat and tails unless he rents them. I did note it's always the same top hat though. Did I mention how much I hate top hats? They really don't suit anyone, well, maybe there's one exception and I'm stunned at that. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 9, 2014 4:26:26 GMT
It was almost a smug look but I'll have to watch it again. Darn it!! There was just something about the way he was replying to Julia's comment and the looks on his face in this scene but maybe I'm just reading something into it that's not there. The ep he had to rest was much later. Once you rewatch it, I'd love to know your take on it. I've re-watched this scene several times now and I've come to the conclusion that William's reply was just too flippant. There has to be something more behind this. |
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Everything can come off except the black tie? Ok, have to go away and dwell on that thought for a while...... 
) to see pt 2. The Inspector, as usual, has knocked the nail in the head and I too look forward to part 2 and a few more episodes further into the season to see how all this plays out.
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT