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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 6:08:54 GMT
Soooo, I was rewatching season 6, and hubby joined me (first time) while watching Murdoch in Ladies Wear. He quickly picked up on W/J and noted that Julia took it rather well that William was having sexual dreams about Eva. I agree. Given her annoyance that William was allowing Eva to play him in the interview, and she definitely didn't like it when she was touching him, why do you think she seemed none too upset that William was fantasizing about another woman in a sexual manner. This relates to this topic because if they haven't, because William wants to wait until they're married, why isn't she more worried/angered that William is dreaming about having sex with another woman? Is this more proof that William will play with other women, but not with Julia because she's "the one you marry". That can't please Julia too much either. I'm really thinking that while William and Julia haven't, he has-with other women. Argh! This might be the end of my duality theory. I don't think Julia was annoyed that William was allowing Eva to play him, he didn't know he was being played. She clearly saw that he was being manipulated in ways he didn't understand. To me she looked more like she was studying Eva carefully and reading her intentions. She wasn't upset that William was having dreams of being seduced by Eva because she knew exactly what she was and how she used men. She knew William wasn't interested in Eva on a conscious level and he had no control over his subconscious. I think William slept with Anna but only in Toronto. I've always wondered what he meant when he said "what transpired in England should remain in England" as I don't think he would have slept with Anna once he remembered Julia and he didn't seem to have had a chance before he remembered. I don't think she was annoyed because Eva was attempting a seduction (hardly William's fault), she was annoyed that he and Brax denied it afterwards-until Brax realized that she was onto something. Then, William has a sex dream about Eva and admits he wants her-something Julia took pretty well, IMO. Also, nice save at the end when he tells her he's back to dreaming about her (Julia). Surely Julia wanted to know about those dreams-and maybe the reason she baited him so hard during season 7.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 6:12:20 GMT
There's also a trick of TV show subjectivity going on here, just like the memory of The Green Muse. We saw William thinking about Eva, and we know he related his dream to Julia - but we don't know the exact details he related. He may not have gone as far as what we saw going on in his inner thoughts! I feel with something like this we can't over think it, we have to take it at face value that what we saw is what he told her. The problem with MM is everything can be overthunk. Us, overthink? But that's what makes it fun!
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 6:18:23 GMT
Surely Julia wanted to know about those dreams-and maybe the reason she baited him so hard during season 7. Especially if she wasn't getting any action, lol.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 6:25:58 GMT
It's possible, but Julia does ask him if he "desired her (Eva)" and William says yes. That's a pretty big admission to make to your beloved. And Julia handles it well. But if you watch the first interview with Eva playing William, Julia did not like Eva touching William or taking control of the interview (touching his hand, leaning forward, seductive eye contact) which was noted by Julia's sharp breaths, tight lips, and facial expressions. But maybe she's just satisfied that he admitted that she was right-he had been sort of seduced by Eva Pierce. I don't read Julia's reaction that way. I read it as her realizing how manipulative Eva is and reacting to the start of her taking control of the situation. I paused the video at that moment and her look isn't one of dislike, more recognition. I just don't think Julia would be jealous, she knows she's got William hook, line and sinker regardless of how he reacts to other women. Apart from the fact I don't think Julia is the jealous type, she's got too much confidence in herself. Though... in Convalescence I think she wished she hadn't pushed him away but it was too late after he'd found Enid and there may have been a little envy no, a lot! Even then he was still really hers and just going through the motions with Enid. And perhaps that's the doctor in her-recognizing that it's just a typical response to an attractive woman seducing him and the knowledge that William isn't about to hook up with a murderess-he can't help his response to Eva. I agree that Julia knows she owns William but that doesn't mean that she liked Eva touching or seducing her man. I think she was a little put out, and I would have liked to see some more interaction between the two in Murdoch Sting, but alas, Julia was busy with other things, and I think the writers missed a delicious opportunity there.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 11:08:29 GMT
I was watching MiLW again and I noted before, but really thought about it this time, when Darcy comes to Julia's office with the divorce papers and tries to make a move to get her back he says he may not have expressed the affection he feels for her. Rather a weak thing to say if he's trying to win her back. Shouldn't he be expressing how much he LOVES her?? It is a weak thing, and it really underscores that Darcy didn't really know or even get Julia. He claimed to have enjoyed her company the night of that party, but that wasn't the real Julia-she was playing his perfect wife out of gratitude and guilt for the scandal the whole divorce was going to cause him. He said he loved her and was willing to fight for her (Kissing Bandit), but then pressures her into being someone she isn't. He loves the idea of something that doesn't exist. He fell in love with a defeated, brokenhearted Julia, and when she ceased to be that, there was a problem. However, I hated the way they disposed of him, Julia was so passive about Darcy's reconciliation attempt, and I think CC wrote a fic that dealt with this in a much better way, IMO. She schemes with Emily and Julia blackmails him with illicit photos of his affair and then he signs the divorce papers. I know it was done to free Julia so William could marry her in the church, and get James Gillies into the show, but those two episodes (6.12 and 6.13) are among my least favorites of the entire show. I know I've said it before, but I hate James Gillies not because he's evil, but because he leads to ridiculous, bad writing.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 11:10:14 GMT
Surely Julia wanted to know about those dreams-and maybe the reason she baited him so hard during season 7. Especially if she wasn't getting any action, lol. Exactly!
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 15:16:04 GMT
And perhaps that's the doctor in her-recognizing that it's just a typical response to an attractive woman seducing him and the knowledge that William isn't about to hook up with a murderess-he can't help his response to Eva. I agree that Julia knows she owns William but that doesn't mean that she liked Eva touching or seducing her man. I think she was a little put out, and I would have liked to see some more interaction between the two in Murdoch Sting, but alas, Julia was busy with other things, and I think the writers missed a delicious opportunity there. Exactly! She wasn't Julia watching that interrogation, she was Dr. Ogden, big difference. I'm sure she doesn't like Eva touching him but she knew he had no control over the situation.
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 15:18:40 GMT
I don't think she was annoyed because Eva was attempting a seduction (hardly William's fault), she was annoyed that he and Brax denied it afterwards-until Brax realized that she was onto something. Then, William has a sex dream about Eva and admits he wants her-something Julia took pretty well, IMO. Also, nice save at the end when he tells her he's back to dreaming about her (Julia). Surely Julia wanted to know about those dreams-and maybe the reason she baited him so hard during season 7. I'm not even sure she was annoyed at this, more exasperated. Again she could see that neither of them knew they'd been had.
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 15:24:42 GMT
I was watching MiLW again and I noted before, but really thought about it this time, when Darcy comes to Julia's office with the divorce papers and tries to make a move to get her back he says he may not have expressed the affection he feels for her. Rather a weak thing to say if he's trying to win her back. Shouldn't he be expressing how much he LOVES her?? It is a weak thing, and it really underscores that Darcy didn't really know or even get Julia. He claimed to have enjoyed her company the night of that party, but that wasn't the real Julia-she was playing his perfect wife out of gratitude and guilt for the scandal the whole divorce was going to cause him. He said he loved her and was willing to fight for her (Kissing Bandit), but then pressures her into being someone she isn't. He loves the idea of something that doesn't exist. He fell in love with a defeated, brokenhearted Julia, and when she ceased to be that, there was a problem. However, I hated the way they disposed of him, Julia was so passive about Darcy's reconciliation attempt, and I think CC wrote a fic that dealt with this in a much better way, IMO. She schemes with Emily and Julia blackmails him with illicit photos of his affair and then he signs the divorce papers. I totally agree with your assessment of the situation with Darcy. He didn't know the real Julia until he married her and then it was too late and he wanted her to become the trophy wife to be paraded when necessary. I find it intriguing that quiet, repressed William can cope with all that Julia entails.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 15:43:31 GMT
I don't think she was annoyed because Eva was attempting a seduction (hardly William's fault), she was annoyed that he and Brax denied it afterwards-until Brax realized that she was onto something. Then, William has a sex dream about Eva and admits he wants her-something Julia took pretty well, IMO. Also, nice save at the end when he tells her he's back to dreaming about her (Julia). Surely Julia wanted to know about those dreams-and maybe the reason she baited him so hard during season 7. I'm not even sure she was annoyed at this, more exasperated. Again she could see that neither of them knew they'd been had. I'm not shocked that she wasn't angry at William, I'm just surprised that she wasn't. In the past, she's been pretty possessive over him, but that's just to other women, and not really towards William. She's a confident woman indeed to know that her beloved is fantasizing about other women and only be amused about it.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 15:47:06 GMT
It is a weak thing, and it really underscores that Darcy didn't really know or even get Julia. He claimed to have enjoyed her company the night of that party, but that wasn't the real Julia-she was playing his perfect wife out of gratitude and guilt for the scandal the whole divorce was going to cause him. He said he loved her and was willing to fight for her (Kissing Bandit), but then pressures her into being someone she isn't. He loves the idea of something that doesn't exist. He fell in love with a defeated, brokenhearted Julia, and when she ceased to be that, there was a problem. However, I hated the way they disposed of him, Julia was so passive about Darcy's reconciliation attempt, and I think CC wrote a fic that dealt with this in a much better way, IMO. She schemes with Emily and Julia blackmails him with illicit photos of his affair and then he signs the divorce papers. I find it intriguing that quiet, repressed William can cope with all that Julia entails. As do I-that is intriguing, but it certainly seems to intrigue him, whatever it is. But I think because she's so unrepressed is something that attracts him-he longs to be free as well, but his position is more precarious than hers.
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 16:49:21 GMT
And perhaps that's the doctor in her-recognizing that it's just a typical response to an attractive woman seducing him and the knowledge that William isn't about to hook up with a murderess-he can't help his response to Eva. I agree that Julia knows she owns William but that doesn't mean that she liked Eva touching or seducing her man. Exactly! She wasn't Julia watching that interrogation, she was Dr. Ogden, big difference. I'm sure she doesn't like Eva touching him but she knew he had no control over the situation. She probably rarely gets to see the "Great Detective" knocked down a peg or two...especially by a woman! I think she gets amused by men's foibles. And interest in Landsapes~
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 14, 2014 17:02:12 GMT
Exactly! She wasn't Julia watching that interrogation, she was Dr. Ogden, big difference. I'm sure she doesn't like Eva touching him but she knew he had no control over the situation. She probably rarely gets to see the "Great Detective" knocked down a peg or two...especially by a woman! I think she gets amused by men's foibles. And interest in Landsapes~
I once had a friend, who as a joke, subscribed to Playboy in her boyfriend's name, and then waited to see how he would react to it, etc. and just generally laugh her butt off about it. The then boyfrend/now husband is a very serious sort as well, and his reaction (some of which she filmed) was pretty hilarious. I'm starting to suspect that Julia would have done something quite similar to William.
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 17:04:50 GMT
I find it intriguing that quiet, repressed William can cope with all that Julia entails. Especially the fact that Julia could get William in trouble, and he's spent a lifetime avoiding trouble. Perhaps at one level she's an agent of change for him: adjusting to her allows him to embrace the modern world in general. Or maybe her ability to defy all the rules that constrained him makes her the ultimate mystery/puzzle for him, and William loves mysteries!
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 17:07:38 GMT
I starting to suspect that Julia would have done something quite similar to William. I can see that actually happening! What would be the 1902 equivalent?
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