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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 4:06:36 GMT
She wasn't upset that William was having dreams of being seduced by Eva because she knew exactly what she was and how she used men. She knew William wasn't interested in Eva on a conscious level and he had no control over his subconscious. There's also a trick of TV show subjectivity going on here, just like the memory of The Green Muse. We saw William thinking about Eva, and we know he related his dream to Julia - but we don't know the exact details he related. He may not have gone as far as what we saw going on in his inner thoughts!  I feel with something like this we can't over think it, we have to take it at face value that what we saw is what he told her. The problem with MM is everything can be overthunk. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 4:21:50 GMT
There's also a trick of TV show subjectivity going on here, just like the memory of The Green Muse. We saw William thinking about Eva, and we know he related his dream to Julia - but we don't know the exact details he related. He may not have gone as far as what we saw going on in his inner thoughts! I feel with something like this we can't over think it, we have to take it at face value that what we saw is what he told her. The problem with MM is everything can be overthunk. But why should we take it at face value? The very fact we can't is what takes the writing/directing out of the sphere of reporting and into the sphere of an art form.  |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 4:22:47 GMT
It's possible, but Julia does ask him if he "desired her (Eva)" and William says yes. That's a pretty big admission to make to your beloved. And Julia handles it well. But if you watch the first interview with Eva playing William, Julia did not like Eva touching William or taking control of the interview (touching his hand, leaning forward, seductive eye contact) which was noted by Julia's sharp breaths, tight lips, and facial expressions. But maybe she's just satisfied that he admitted that she was right-he had been sort of seduced by Eva Pierce. I don't read Julia's reaction that way. I read it as her realizing how manipulative Eva is and reacting to the start of her taking control of the situation. I paused the video at that moment and her look isn't one of dislike, more recognition. I just don't think Julia would be jealous, she knows she's got William hook, line and sinker regardless of how he reacts to other women. Apart from the fact I don't think Julia is the jealous type, she's got too much confidence in herself. Though... in Convalescence I think she wished she hadn't pushed him away but it was too late after he'd found Enid and there may have been a little envy no, a lot! Even then he was still really hers and just going through the motions with Enid. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 4:23:56 GMT
I feel with something like this we can't over think it, we have to take it at face value that what we saw is what he told her. The problem with MM is everything can be overthunk. But why should we take it at face value? The very fact we can't is what takes the writing/directing out of the sphere of reporting and into the sphere of an art form. If we didn't over think it we wouldn't be having these conversations however I do think that sometimes you have to take things at face value. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 4:43:47 GMT
Apart from the fact I don't think Julia is the jealous type, she's got too much confidence in herself. Really good point! And it totally shows when she's calling him a "stick in the mud", hahahaha. Didn't someone else call William a "stick in the mud"? I think Crabtree or Brackenreid were talking about William when he was away (Staircase to Heaven?) and called him a stick in the mud. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 4:45:00 GMT
I was watching MiLW again and I noted before, but really thought about it this time, when Darcy comes to Julia's office with the divorce papers and tries to make a move to get her back he says he may not have expressed the affection he feels for her. Rather a weak thing to say if he's trying to win her back. Shouldn't he be expressing how much he LOVES her??
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 4:47:53 GMT
It's possible, but Julia does ask him if he "desired her (Eva)" and William says yes. That's a pretty big admission to make to your beloved. And Julia handles it well. But if you watch the first interview with Eva playing William, Julia did not like Eva touching William or taking control of the interview (touching his hand, leaning forward, seductive eye contact) which was noted by Julia's sharp breaths, tight lips, and facial expressions. But maybe she's just satisfied that he admitted that she was right-he had been sort of seduced by Eva Pierce. Those little gestures were interpreted in a big way in Victorian times - just as ankle showings were: and I think the insight into William's mind is meant to show that. Julia may have even imagined MORE than what William told her. But I think there is a barrier of communication between them that is not always clear on the show because the audience gets an omniscient perspective. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 4:56:56 GMT
I was watching MiLW again and I noted before, but really thought about it this time, when Darcy comes to Julia's office with the divorce papers and tries to make a move to get her back he says he may not have expressed the affection he feels for her. Rather a weak thing to say if he's trying to win her back. Shouldn't he be expressing how much he LOVES her?? This is what I've been saying about the possible difference between what the audience is shown (primarily William's perspective, and sometimes just his imagination/memories/thought processes) and what actually gets communicated between characters. Victorian Propriety spared everyone the embarrassment of wearing their heart on their sleeve. Julia wants to hear more about love, but it takes years of prompting to even get that out of William! This is why they needed the Language of Flowers and other coded forms of speech to communicate with each other. This is also why Freud, Jung, and the study the Unconscious was such a big thing: psychoanalysis and legitimated actually saying all those things that had been repressed, and for a while the avant-garde were getting quite a thrill from the shock of it. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 4:59:42 GMT
Apart from the fact I don't think Julia is the jealous type, she's got too much confidence in herself. Really good point! And it totally shows when she's calling him a "stick in the mud", hahahaha. Didn't someone else call William a "stick in the mud"? I think Crabtree or Brackenreid were talking about William when he was away (Staircase to Heaven?) and called him a stick in the mud. Julia could call William anything she wanted and he'd just say "Yes dear." We know who'll wear the pants in that marriage. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2014 5:10:30 GMT
This is also why Freud, Jung, and the study the Unconscious was such a big thing: psychoanalysis and legitimated actually saying all those things that had been repressed, and for a while the avant-garde were getting quite a thrill from the shock of it. I was somewhat surprised that Julia didn't get a response from William when she told him about Freud and his theory of being ruled by sexual urges. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 5:16:24 GMT
This is also why Freud, Jung, and the study the Unconscious was such a big thing: psychoanalysis and legitimated actually saying all those things that had been repressed, and for a while the avant-garde were getting quite a thrill from the shock of it. I was somewhat surprised that Julia didn't get a response from William when she told him about Freud and his theory of being ruled by sexual urges. He's probably been reading Freud on the sly. And he was probably totally turned on just by the thought she went to Vienna to study! Also part of what attracted William in the past is the way Julia as a doctor just bluntly laid out things that were normally not said and followed (naked) bodies where clues led her. (This was very much like Scully in the X-Files). |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 5:18:59 GMT
Julia could call William anything she wanted and he'd just say "Yes dear." We know who'll wear the pants in that marriage. hahaha, I don't think William is such a pushover. He's not going to stop Julia from doing what she wants to do, but she's not going to walk all over him either. His mild mannered ways are deceptive. The hat comes off at night. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 5:24:16 GMT
If we didn't over think it we wouldn't be having these conversations however I do think that sometimes you have to take things at face value. I bet we wouldn't be worrying about face value if you weren't worried about keeping every single kiss of The Green Muse on factual record! |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 5:40:12 GMT
Which is why Julia has got her work cut out for her. However, now that she's told him that he's a "stick in the mud", perhaps he'll think of a way to sweep her off her feet. William made a lot of progress last season in communicating his thoughts to her, taking her out on the town, and demonstrably showing his feelings to her. Julia will not want to be viewed as just the saintly wife, she's also going to want to be the mistress. I hope William is slightly alarmed at that comment, too. From season 4 on, William has had a heightened awareness of how his "cautiousness" and failure to make the "grand gestures" had cost him his relationship with Julia previously. A stick in the mud is the last thing he wants to be seen as! But I think Julia should also have some consideration for William, too. While all her unpredictability and taboo-breaking is a turn-on for him, he also has a great psychological need for stability. If Julia loves him, she will respect that need. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2014 5:54:01 GMT
Absolutely! Everything's better on horseback! Can the tie be off, and the first 2/3 buttons undone? And some of that pomade rinsed out of his hair.  Seems like you have some "unleashing the beast" on the mind... |
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