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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 3:53:29 GMT
I really did like the ep, but when combined with the lack of women/Jilliam this season, it's major cause for concern. Unfortunately for me, this concern has overridden the enjoyment of the episode.  I feel the same way. The episode wasn't bad but it was one more nail in the strong female character coffin and overrode my enjoyment too. Funny, I haven't been too worried about the lack of strong women up until last night and I think it finally dawned how little we've seen this season. |
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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 3:55:52 GMT
MM posted on Twitter last night that the 8 February episode will focus on Julia's psychiatry practice..... Cheers Perhaps they've figured out that we won't stand by and see the women pushed aside and felt they needed to reassure us that they haven't done this ... despite the fact they have for the last few episodes. Let's face it all we've seen of Julia lately is of her playing Mrs. Murdoch. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jan 14, 2015 4:05:51 GMT
I really did like the ep, but when combined with the lack of women/Jilliam this season, it's major cause for concern. Unfortunately for me, this concern has overridden the enjoyment of the episode. I feel the same way. The episode wasn't bad but it was one more nail in the strong female character coffin and overrode my enjoyment too. Funny, I haven't been too worried about the lack of strong women up until last night and I think it finally dawned how little we've seen this season. I think last night was the tipping point for a lot of folk. Julia at least had some good lines(what few there were). Emily is hardly recognized as a professional anymore. She's now the pretty young thing who flits in, declares someone dead, and flits off again. Plus, throw in a few token lines about suffragism. Voila! Which is a shame, and I think the team is stunned by reaction to the ep. It was a good episode on its own, but combined with the season as a whole, it was definitely a nail in the coffin for strong female characters. |
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Post by snacky on Jan 14, 2015 4:16:50 GMT
more upset about female characterization this season. Julia's all but gone already, and Emily flits in, declares someone dead. Yes Emily may be a bellwether of the bigger problem. She seems even more scientific than Julia, yet she is not resorted to as the "brilliant pathologist" or sounding board lest UST arise. Julia did hint thay William shouldn't be hanging around so much once they weren't dating. The morgue seems to have become alienated from the space of police work. I think that is the problem, rather than misogyny per se. |
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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 4:18:32 GMT
Well I finished my project which was related to the writers, who wrote what, how many eps each and what eps I liked. Results were interesting and just a little surprising.
First all the writers and how many eps each, there are several collaborations which are counted separately.
1 Adam Barken
1 Bobby Theodore
1 Daphne Ballon
1 Jackie May
1 Janet MacLean
1 Jordan Christianson, Carol Hay, Simon McNabb, Michelle Ricci
1 Paul Aitken & Alexandra Zarowny
1 Paul Aitken, Carol Hay, Peter Mitchell, Michelle Ricci
1 Peter Mitchell & Jordan Christianson
1 Peter Mohan
2 Jason Sherman
2 Jean Greig & Cal Coons
2 Jordan Christianson
2 Laura Phillips
2 R.B. Carney
2 Simon McNabb
3 Graham Clegg
3 Maureen Jennings & Peter Mitchell
4 Cal Coons
4 Derek Schreyer
4 Jean Greig
4 Phil Bedard & Larry Lalonde
5 Michelle Ricci
7 Lori Spring
7 Paul Aitken & Graham Clegg
8 Alexandra Zarowny
8 Peter Mitchell
11 Carol Hay
16 Paul Aitken
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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 4:25:38 GMT
These are the writers of my favourite episodes, my main 'go to' eps, more than I expected!
1 Bobby Theodore
1 Daphne Ballon
1 Derek Schreyer
1 Jackie May
1 Janet MacLean
1 Jean Greig
1 Jean Greig & Cal Coons
1 Michelle Ricci
1 Paul Aitken, Carol Hay, Peter Mitchell, Michelle Ricci
1 Peter Mohan
1 Phil Bedard & Larry Lalonde
1 R.B. Carney
2 Alexandra Zarowny
2 Jordan Christianson
2 Laura Phillips
2 Lori Spring
3 Cal Coons
4 Paul Aitken & Graham Clegg
5 Peter Mitchell
6 Carol Hay
7 Paul Aitken
The most surprising thing I found is that Peter Mitchell has five eps on my 'go to' list. The second, which isn't obvious from the list is that it was in S7 that the new writers came in and S7 was the shippiest and most Julia heavy season although S6 was pretty good for shippers too.
What this does prove to me is that despite the fact that I'm not sure about PM as a showrunner I don't mind his eps as much as I thought but Carol Hay and Paul Aitken are, as I suspected, my favourite writers. They are the most prolific however that doesn't necessarily automatically make them the best.
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Post by lovemondays on Jan 14, 2015 4:30:26 GMT
Well, I finally got to see a very poor quality stream of last night's ep. I don't know how you all can stand the frustration. If I were home I would have seen it 27 hours ago!! That's a lifetime after the holiday haitus.
Anyway, here are my observations:
Overall, I enjoyed the Indiana Jones take-off (certainly more than the spaghetti westerns of Glory Days). I absolutely love how George described his hero. I was picturing Harrison Ford but he didn't reference the hat or the whip. William's face was priceless as George rhymed off all the details about Hagia Sofia off the top of his head. George does not get enough credit for his accuracy. It's his thinking outside the box that often yields the truth. In this case he was right not only about the Holy Grail, but also about it being disguised by a ceramic layer!!
I am sad that Iris is dead. I liked her character. They did use given names with each other in EEoE so it would seem strange if they did not revert to that form of address IMO. I had a strange and alarming sense of deja vu when William and Iris were outlining their theory for Brax. It looked just like William and his beautiful, female crime-solving partner Julia, MINUS JULIA!!!! I also didn't like the stiffness of William's phone call with Julia. I concur with the prevailing sense amongst you all that women, in general, and Julia, in particular are being marginalized.
Lillian Moss makes me mad. She was contemptuous of William after meeting him and condescending to Julia because she stepped back from the candidacy. Her character is being written as a man-hater, not just a sapphist. One does not equal the other. Never mind that Julia had worked behind the scenes to get Margaret's campaign funded, by a man, no less. Lillian had no appreciation or insight into the amount of work that must go on in the background to bring about change. Her opinion of Julia wasn't modified until Julia got up on the podium to shame the crowd into listening. Lillian is very quick to have an opinion but seems to shy away from actually getting her hands dirty. I didn't think Julia was the right candidate to begin with...she has a scandalous reputation that any opposing candidate would be using as ammunition to dismiss anything political point she would be making. IMO, the discussions between Wm and Julia regarding her candidacy served to give us some insight into how the marriage was working and that was really the writer's purpose.
Can't wait to get home and see an HD replay! The CG department really worked overtime with this one to great effect.
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Post by lovemondays on Jan 14, 2015 4:38:28 GMT
These are the writers of my favourite episodes, my main 'go to' eps, more than I expected! 1 Bobby Theodore 1 Daphne Ballon 1 Derek Schreyer 1 Jackie May 1 Janet MacLean 1 Jean Greig 1 Jean Greig & Cal Coons 1 Michelle Ricci 1 Paul Aitken, Carol Hay, Peter Mitchell, Michelle Ricci 1 Peter Mohan 1 Phil Bedard & Larry Lalonde 1 R.B. Carney 2 Alexandra Zarowny 2 Jordan Christianson 2 Laura Phillips 2 Lori Spring 3 Cal Coons 4 Paul Aitken & Graham Clegg 5 Peter Mitchell 6 Carol Hay 7 Paul Aitken The most surprising thing I found is that Peter Mitchell has five eps on my 'go to' list. The second, which isn't obvious from the list is that it was in S7 that the new writers came in and S7 was the shippiest and most Julia heavy season although S6 was pretty good for shippers too. What this does prove to me is that despite the fact that I'm not sure about PM as a showrunner I don't mind his eps as much as I thought but Carol Hay and Paul Aitken are, as I suspected, my favourite writers. They are the most prolific however that doesn't necessarily automatically make them the best. That is a very interesting list. Now it begs the question "who is responsible for the dramatic changes to the qualities of the show that so attracted us in the first place?" Your list seems to let Peter Mitchell off the hook somewhat. Carol Hay is probably my favourite writer. Now I'm going to have to go and 'rate the writers'  . |
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Post by snacky on Jan 14, 2015 4:52:33 GMT
Having Kindle troubles so I can't quote, only comment randomly.
- I don't like cordoning Julia off in a separate "women's" ep. But I can see how it happened. The need to separate William and Julia for UST (poorly handled) clashed with the idea of a crime solving duo.
- In historical context Lillian isn't a man-hater. The "feminist theory" of the period was you had to renounce the slavery of marriage to be a New Woman, sapphist or not. Lillian regards Julia as a sell out to a cause that neexs every woman it can get.
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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 5:00:32 GMT
I feel the same way. The episode wasn't bad but it was one more nail in the strong female character coffin and overrode my enjoyment too. Funny, I haven't been too worried about the lack of strong women up until last night and I think it finally dawned how little we've seen this season. I think last night was the tipping point for a lot of folk. Julia at least had some good lines(what few there were). Emily is hardly recognized as a professional anymore. She's now the pretty young thing who flits in, declares someone dead, and flits off again. Plus, throw in a few token lines about suffragism. Voila! Which is a shame, and I think the team is stunned by reaction to the ep. It was a good episode on its own, but combined with the season as a whole, it was definitely a nail in the coffin for strong female characters. As a rule people are falling over themselves saying how much they enjoyed the ep, this time whilst people did for the most part enjoy it the lack of the women became glaringly obvious especially Julia when she was absent for dinner. That I think was the tipping point. People are now thinking about the women's roles in the 'new' MM and not liking what they're seeing. Hence the tweet about 'Julia's ep'. I hope we don't have to wait another 3 weeks before we see more of the ladies though. I also saw that PM tweeted "grateful for passionate fans". He won't be if things don't turn around! |
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Post by lovemondays on Jan 14, 2015 5:14:16 GMT
- In historical context Lillian isn't a man-hater. The "feminist theory" of the period was you had to renounce the slavery of marriage to be a New Woman, sapphist or not. Lillian regards Julia as a sell out to a cause that neexs every woman it can get. I agree with you that Lillian sees Julia as being a sell out, I just feel that she's all show and no substance. There was something very specific in this ep that made me think man-hater...I'll re-watch and let you know. |
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Post by Hodge on Jan 14, 2015 5:15:43 GMT
Lillian Moss makes me mad. She was contemptuous of William after meeting him and condescending to Julia because she stepped back from the candidacy. Her character is being written as a man-hater, not just a sapphist. One does not equal the other. Never mind that Julia had worked behind the scenes to get Margaret's campaign funded, by a man, no less. Lillian had no appreciation or insight into the amount of work that must go on in the background to bring about change. Her opinion of Julia wasn't modified until Julia got up on the podium to shame the crowd into listening. Lillian is very quick to have an opinion but seems to shy away from actually getting her hands dirty. I didn't think Julia was the right candidate to begin with...she has a scandalous reputation that any opposing candidate would be using as ammunition to dismiss anything political point she would be making. IMO, the discussions between Wm and Julia regarding her candidacy served to give us some insight into how the marriage was working and that was really the writer's purpose. Not sure LM makes me mad but she's definitely a character I don't want to see too much of. I realize she's there to ... make a point ... carry the suffragette plot ... not sure what yet other than to annoy. I was fine with her and Emily getting together, until I 'met' her, now I hope it doesn't happen! I found her pretty contemptuous of William given she'd only just met him. Looks like she's just going to be the clichéd man hater to me. Obviously had preconceived ideas given Julia gave up her candidacy for him and you're right, Julia was the wrong candidate given her past. |
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Post by snacky on Jan 14, 2015 5:23:21 GMT
I also loved George's knowledge of history, which I feel equals William's knowledge of science. I think William should officially stop being surprised by that and he should start to respect George as a resource in that area.
This goes with something else I realized when William was listening to Dr. Bajjali. What made William a great detective - out of left field - was that he's a very humble man. He came from poor circumstances and was probably taught by the Jesuits to regard his education as great charity. His initial world was very small, and thus his mind is always open to enlarging it. That's why he could accept the modern scientific discoveries that clased with his current beliefs and that's why he will listen to every perspective. That's why he can imagine a world of equal partnership wuith women, and that's why he will accommodate the idea of cold soup in the toff world. William has always viewed himself as humble before the vast possibilities of God's creation.
Hmm...not true. There were a couple "hubris" moments I pointed out last season. At the time I thought I saw a Greek tragedy coming. Not so sure now since this season has been mostly light-hearted and scatter-shot. William seems humble again in adjusting to marriage to Julia and in his awe of Dr. Bajjali.
I really like this about his character and that his success as a detective can be traced to this kind of character trait.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jan 14, 2015 5:27:06 GMT
- In historical context Lillian isn't a man-hater. The "feminist theory" of the period was you had to renounce the slavery of marriage to be a New Woman, sapphist or not. Lillian regards Julia as a sell out to a cause that neexs every woman it can get. I agree with you that Lillian sees Julia as being a sell out, I just feel that she's all show and no substance. There was something very specific in this ep that made me think man-hater...I'll re-watch and let you know. I agree. She's a man-hater, or what many men consider to be a stereotypical feminist. While there were a few women who may have hated and resented men, I disagree that most suffragettes were man-haters. The majority of women were married, and thus, also married. Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia Mott, and I think most of the Pankhursts were married/involved in relationships with men. Lillian was pretty nasty. I thought William was quite gracious about her interrupting Emily at work. He could've been far more abrupt-Emily is at work after all. |
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Post by snacky on Jan 14, 2015 5:31:25 GMT
After weeks of fraught American politics, it gives me the giggles to think of fandom uprising with pitchforks and fiery torches over getting Julia and Emily more crime time. XD
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT