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Post by MelodyPond101 on Feb 17, 2015 3:41:59 GMT
I can't tell what people really think on twitter cuz CBC only reblogs nice comments....I'd have to look at the actual MM tag then. The few people who have commented on tumblr seem on board though. It's not like they've never shown gay people on the show before, hell Murdoch made out with Gillies just last year...so why is there so much backlash this time? Just because it was women shown? I don't get it. I think people really are more freaked out by lesbians than gay men. But the whole Xena/Gabrielle thing had a huge following, so who knows. Also, I guess the few people who did see a George/Emily relationship were really devoted to that relationship...? It's just so hard for my mind to even go there. It's actually easier for me to ship Emily/Leslie.  The reaction to lesbians/bisexual women is significantly different from the reaction to gay/bisexual men. I'm not sure about it freaking people out more, but people certainly tend to belittle it/not take it seriously- many a lesbians and bisexual women are told that they are only doing it for the attention of men, or the like. The fetishization of f/f relationships is another problem that women face. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:10:23 GMT
The reaction to lesbians/bisexual women is significantly different from the reaction to gay/bisexual men. I'm not sure about it freaking people out more, but people certainly tend to belittle it/not take it seriously- many a lesbians and bisexual women are told that they are only doing it for the attention of men, or the like. The fetishization of f/f relationships is another problem that women face. Historically men used to blow it off as something women normally did for practice or sport in all-female environments. It turned them on. It wasn't it a threat at all because it was "discrete", and it didn't undermine the "family" or the legal transmission of property. Male relationships were a slightly more threatening because they ran afoul the Biblical invectives against sodomy. Perhaps part of the issue is marriage wasn't perceived so much as a "love" match before the 19th century. It was more of a practical, legal arrangement in which love would hopefully develop. Therefore no one was too judgmental about emotional outlets and workarounds. As the idea of the nuclear family tightened up and the notion of the "love match" became stronger, people began to patrol the boundaries of relationships. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:14:19 GMT
Perhaps we can think of Emily as a good influence on Lillian? If Lillian were perfectly good, she would be boring! Think of her as a diamond in the rough who needed someone to contend with the rough parts...  I can work with that. My issue with Lillian until now has been her unreasonable aggression and condescension towards people she doesn't know. That was absent in this episode. In the end she was almost on the defensive..."I am not a toy". I like people who know their minds. I just hate when some feel the need to stomp on others in pursuit of their agenda. I generally agree with some leeway about how much power people have the equation. For example, a giant might step on an ant and not even realize it. The ant might be forgiven for getting on it's little motorcycle and running up the Giant's pant-leg to make a point and divert the Giant from stepping on its colony. Some people need to stomp! Anyway, I see Lillian as being a desperate radical and having a growth curve. Let's see if Emily is good for her! |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:16:07 GMT
I can work with that. My issue with Lillian until now has been her unreasonable aggression and condescension towards people she doesn't know. That was absent in this episode. In the end she was almost on the defensive..."I am not a toy". I like people who know their minds. I just hate when some feel the need to stomp on others in pursuit of their agenda. This is exactly why she rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand her attitude towards people when she didn't know them and her only reason for her opinion was because they were married. Totally unreasonable. Tonight she was quite tolerable and dare I say it, I actually liked her. We'll see about the future though!! I still wish people would take into account that there was a recent "hot" idea that marriage actually stunted the Darwinian development of women. The timing is exactly right for Lillian to hold that idea. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:17:44 GMT
I agree, Brackenreid had her best interests at heart but he always seems to blow it. Like Lillian, Brackenreid is a flawed character. That's what makes MM interesting. Even William does the wrong thing sometimes. If everyone always did the right thing, there would be nothing to talk about! |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:19:41 GMT
I think Brackenreid is genuinely fond of Emily and was sincere in saying he wanted her to continue as coroner, and that he had her best interests at heart.....I think he will realise he blew it after the fact and try to make amends....after all, he was reflecting what would be the reaction in society....there wasn't much tolerance of anything resembling an alternate lifestyle, and in some circles, there is isn't..... This sounds similar to Brackenreid's advice to William about containing Julia's political aspiration. He's too close to those traditional "political masters" giving warped "advice". In speaking of which...  |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:21:00 GMT
This is exactly why she rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand her attitude towards people when she didn't know them and her only reason for her opinion was because they were married. Totally unreasonable. Tonight she was quite tolerable and dare I say it, I actually liked her. We'll see about the future though!! Are there differences when men write Lillian and when women write Lillian? |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 4:21:21 GMT
I agree, Brackenreid had her best interests at heart but he always seems to blow it. Like Lillian, Brackenreid is a flawed character. That's what makes MM interesting. Even William does the wrong thing sometimes. If everyone always did the right thing, there would be nothing to talk about! I totally agree, Brackenreid is a hugely flawed character, it's what makes him interesting. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 4:23:07 GMT
This is exactly why she rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand her attitude towards people when she didn't know them and her only reason for her opinion was because they were married. Totally unreasonable. Tonight she was quite tolerable and dare I say it, I actually liked her. We'll see about the future though!! Are there differences when men write Lillian and when women write Lillian? Hmm, haven't thought about that will have to consult my writers spreadsheet and see who's written what ep. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Feb 17, 2015 4:27:53 GMT
Yeah, I've seen quite a few people throwing around The Gay Agenda™. I'm genuinely curious as to what this agenda entails. Are there secret handshakes? Are there snack breaks? If only the bigots were more clear in their wisdom. As far as I know the only Gay Agenda™ is to insist on said sexual proclivity's existence and demand an end to any related discrimination, which hardly threatens people who don't partake in said proclivities. Sounds like Julia needs to come around with some heroin shots to calm people down. Haha, Julia literally did that this ep!  Well it wasn't a shot, but close enough. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 4:30:48 GMT
Are there differences when men write Lillian and when women write Lillian? Hmm, haven't thought about that will have to consult my writers spreadsheet and see who's written what ep. I'm still wondering if the writers didn't take their cues directly from certain US situations. Here protesters supposedly threw "bricks" at police before the police decided to use tear gas, batons, rubber bullets, etc. There is a huge debate about respecting "diversity of tactics" with various groups lecturing other groups on the way to protest. There is are a lot of differing goals, resentments, attempts to hijack, etc. Lillian is almost a US character to me. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 4:31:47 GMT
This is exactly why she rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand her attitude towards people when she didn't know them and her only reason for her opinion was because they were married. Totally unreasonable. Tonight she was quite tolerable and dare I say it, I actually liked her. We'll see about the future though!! I still wish people would take into account that there was a recent "hot" idea that marriage actually stunted the Darwinian development of women. The timing is exactly right for Lillian to hold that idea. Maybe it is but it doesn't mean we have to like or accept it. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 4:33:40 GMT
Hmm, haven't thought about that will have to consult my writers spreadsheet and see who's written what ep. I'm still wondering if the writers didn't take their cues directly from certain US situations. Here protesters supposedly threw "bricks" at police before the police decided to use tear gas, batons, rubber bullets, etc. There is a huge debate about respecting "diversity of tactics" with various groups lecturing other groups on the way to protest. There is are a lot of differing goals, resentments, attempts to hijack, etc. Lillian is almost a US character to me. When was the script written in relation to when all this stuff was going on in the US?? I doubt it had anything to do with MM. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Feb 17, 2015 4:39:41 GMT
This is exactly why she rubbed me the wrong way. I couldn't stand her attitude towards people when she didn't know them and her only reason for her opinion was because they were married. Totally unreasonable. Tonight she was quite tolerable and dare I say it, I actually liked her. We'll see about the future though!! Are there differences when men write Lillian and when women write Lillian? 808 was Carol Hay...Lilian was portrayed nicely. 810 was Paul Aitken...she was a bitch to Julia and rude to Murdoch (I think) 812 was Michelle Ricci...this was the ep we all really didn't like her in. And I think this ep was also Ricci but IMDB doesn't say. She was tweeting earlier though about the episode. So...in other words there doesn't seem to be a connection there if the same female writer can portray Lilian as both a radical bitch and a nice girl.... |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 4:47:53 GMT
Are there differences when men write Lillian and when women write Lillian? Hmm, haven't thought about that will have to consult my writers spreadsheet and see who's written what ep. Interesting, Lillian Moss has been in four eps so far and she'll be in the last three as well. She was introduced in an ep written by Carol Hay, the next was Paul Aitken and the last two were by Michelle Ricci. So three out of four were written by women. |
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Well it wasn't a shot, but close enough.