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Post by snacky on Dec 8, 2014 16:20:23 GMT
Having trouble responding on my phone. How can you cut out an integral part of the show. Alibi shows the full episode the first time they show it then start cutting out the gory bits-even when it's on at 3am. Keeping my eye on Drama to see if they start cutting bits. So far it's been ok. And because it is being shows on Drama MM is getting folks who don't have Alibi thereby increasing its audience in UK and Ireland. I'm sure they had to cut a lot to make room for commercials, but I've already noted a lot of what they've been cutting is the "shippy moments". One of the reasons I'm so angry is I put a lot of personal effort into advocating for MM in the US. I don't want to be one of those fans that asserts personal ownership of the show, and I'm sure I wasn't the only person writing stations and trying to raise interest here, but I do feel the people who wanted to bring the show to the US are owed the basic respect of getting the show we "talked up". I mean, how embarrassing: talking to all your girlfriends about how great a particular show is, and then when they finally see it, they don't see a version with the parts that made it great??!!! It makes *your* taste, and recommendations look bad. Without the Jilliam aspect MM is just another mystery show, and the US has plenty of those: ones that have higher production values and aren't set in Toronto. People start watching MM because they get interested in the characters: this is true even for the ones that say they hate "shippiness" and want to get back to "the mysteries": they just don't realize what MM would be like without that element, and they want to throw their weight against the tendency of writers to start to write soap operas in an attempt to please fans. If this was done deliberately, the person who made the decision is, sorry to put it bluntly, an idiot.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 8, 2014 16:51:47 GMT
Having trouble responding on my phone. How can you cut out an integral part of the show. Alibi shows the full episode the first time they show it then start cutting out the gory bits-even when it's on at 3am. Keeping my eye on Drama to see if they start cutting bits. So far it's been ok. And because it is being shows on Drama MM is getting folks who don't have Alibi thereby increasing its audience in UK and Ireland. I'm sure they had to cut a lot to make room for commercials, but I've already noted a lot of what they've been cutting is the "shippy moments". One of the reasons I'm so angry is I put a lot of personal effort into advocating for MM in the US. I don't want to be one of those fans that asserts personal ownership of the show, and I'm sure I wasn't the only person writing stations and trying to raise interest here, but I do feel the people who wanted to bring the show to the US are owed the basic respect of getting the show we "talked up". I mean, how embarrassing: talking to all your girlfriends about how great a particular show is, and then when they finally see it, they don't see a version with the parts that made it great??!!! It makes *your* taste, and recommendations look bad. Without the Jilliam aspect MM is just another mystery show, and the US has plenty of those: ones that have higher production values and aren't set in Toronto. People start watching MM because they get interested in the characters: this is true even for the ones that say they hate "shippiness" and want to get back to "the mysteries": they just don't realize what MM would be like without that element, and they want to throw their weight against the tendency of writers to start to write soap operas in an attempt to please fans. If this was done deliberately, the person who made the decision is, sorry to put it bluntly, an idiot. As a general rule, the last few minutes are nothing but character development-be it William/Julia or not or another character's story with one another or other-relationships. In other words "shippiness". I don't think shippiness has to be romantic, but they are details and character development that are not pertinent to the mystery, and therefore, the first to go on the editing room floor. This is fine for someone like maybe Ziggy or Shangas who may not care all that much about the character's stories, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's the reason why I tune in week after week. I enjoy the mysteries, but I also like hearing about their characters, and that includes romantic pursuits at times, and I'm invested in the characters who compel me to take a journey along with them. It's possible the editor is one who cares only about the mysteries, but I suspect that since the final two minutes aren't conducive to the mystery, they're also the first to go. It was bugging me after I watched the syndicated version of Child's Play a few nights ago, so I went online and watched the final few minutes where William and Brax threaten have a chat with Mr. Baker who is then persuaded to change how he manages the children. It's not romantic, but it does show William that there's merit to Brackenreid's way of affecting change as well. William has been showing Brackenreid how his way works, but that street works both ways. This scene was cut from the syndicated version. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 8, 2014 22:00:05 GMT
I see what you mean about the editors chopping off the end of every episode, but this is unacceptable. This level of cutting completely sabotages what makes MM good. grrrr. |
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Post by ziggy on Dec 9, 2014 0:13:14 GMT
As a general rule, the last few minutes are nothing but character development-be it William/Julia or not or another character's story with one another or other-relationships. In other words "shippiness". I don't think shippiness has to be romantic, but they are details and character development that are not pertinent to the mystery, and therefore, the first to go on the editing room floor. This is fine for someone like maybe Ziggy or Shangas who may not care all that much about the character's stories, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's the reason why I tune in week after week. I enjoy the mysteries, but I also like hearing about their characters, and that includes romantic pursuits at times, and I'm invested in the characters who compel me to take a journey along with them. It's possible the editor is one who cares only about the mysteries, but I suspect that since the final two minutes aren't conducive to the mystery, they're also the first to go. It was bugging me after I watched the syndicated version of Child's Play a few nights ago, so I went online and watched the final few minutes where William and Brax threaten have a chat with Mr. Baker who is then persuaded to change how he manages the children. It's not romantic, but it does show William that there's merit to Brackenreid's way of affecting change as well. William has been showing Brackenreid how his way works, but that street works both ways. This scene was cut from the syndicated version. I don’t think the editing is all about shippiness or the need to make room for commercials. I just don’t see the point in cutting out bits of episodes that have already been produced and aired in full. This is happening especially with S1 episodes now even in Canada. It ruins the viewer pleasure to say the least. I don’t want to see anything cut from any episode that has already been officially edited and aired. I recently watched a rerun of Bad Medicine (which is one of my S1 favs) and the very end with the scene in the park with William, Ms Pensall and Julia, the Julia bit was cut out. They went from where William got hit with the arrow straight to the park scene and just showed him with Ms Pensall and then went to commercial. What was worse is that I sat there waiting patiently for them to come back and show the Julia bit (because I knew it was there) only for them to return and start to play the MM music theme to indicate it was the end of the episode. I was annoyed. I had some friends over the other day and I had introduced them to MM a while back. They’ve been watching from S5 on the CBC website and since they were with me for the weekend they decided to watch my dvds starting from S5. They got to SotWS and suddenly said it was different from what they saw on CBC online. It turned out that bits of where William got cosy with Anna was cut off on the CBC version. It’s been there for years. There was also the one with Dr. Bajjali where Brax told William that he was not always circumspect when pretty, intelligent women were involved, etc. Even the Klondike one where the victim’s wife said something that gave George a clue as to who the killer was got cut out. You take the trouble to bring in a guest character for the episode and then fall all over yourself to scrub out portions of scenes they appear in. What’s that supposed to mean? Every single episode in S1 has something cut out and they need to fix it quickly. For those that have not seen the full version before, they may not know anything is missing whether relevant or not but it will still look weird to them because they don’t know anything was cut. They may simply conclude that the production is poor because the episode doesn’t quite flow or come together like it should. For those that have seen the full version, it is irritating and it ruins the whole viewing experience. Whoever is behind this sort of editing should be asked a few questions. |
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Post by Hodge on Dec 9, 2014 2:48:36 GMT
I don’t think the editing is all about shippiness or the need to make room for commercials. I just don’t see the point in cutting out bits of episodes that have already been produced and aired in full. This is happening especially with S1 episodes now even in Canada. It ruins the viewer pleasure to say the least. I don’t want to see anything cut from any episode that has already been officially edited and aired. I recently watched a rerun of Bad Medicine (which is one of my S1 favs) and the very end with the scene in the park with William, Ms Pensall and Julia, the Julia bit was cut out. They went from where William got hit with the arrow straight to the park scene and just showed him with Ms Pensall and then went to commercial. What was worse is that I sat there waiting patiently for them to come back and show the Julia bit (because I knew it was there) only for them to return and start to play the MM music theme to indicate it was the end of the episode. I was annoyed. I had some friends over the other day and I had introduced them to MM a while back. They’ve been watching from S5 on the CBC website and since they were with me for the weekend they decided to watch my dvds starting from S5. They got to SotWS and suddenly said it was different from what they saw on CBC online. It turned out that bits of where William got cosy with Anna was cut off on the CBC version. It’s been there for years. There was also the one with Dr. Bajjali where Brax told William that he was not always circumspect when pretty, intelligent women were involved, etc. Even the Klondike one where the victim’s wife said something that gave George a clue as to who the killer was got cut out. You take the trouble to bring in a guest character for the episode and then fall all over yourself to scrub out portions of scenes they appear in. What’s that supposed to mean? Every single episode in S1 has something cut out and they need to fix it quickly. For those that have not seen the full version before, they may not know anything is missing whether relevant or not but it will still look weird to them because they don’t know anything was cut. They may simply conclude that the production is poor because the episode doesn’t quite flow or come together like it should. For those that have seen the full version, it is irritating and it ruins the whole viewing experience. Whoever is behind this sort of editing should be asked a few questions. Unfortunately the time slot for CBC is shorter than that on CityTV that MM was originally produced for. Therefore in order to fit the time allotted something has to be cut. The first time they showed S1 on CBC the edit job was simply terrible, cutting great chunks out and missing the ends from many of the episodes. This time around the editing has been a bit more subtle but still jarring for anyone that has seen it before. Not much to be done unfortunately, if we want to see the earlier seasons on CBC we'll have to put up with it I suppose. I don't like it either. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 9, 2014 3:44:51 GMT
I don’t think the editing is all about shippiness or the need to make room for commercials. I just don’t see the point in cutting out bits of episodes that have already been produced and aired in full. This is happening especially with S1 episodes now even in Canada. It ruins the viewer pleasure to say the least. I don’t want to see anything cut from any episode that has already been officially edited and aired. I recently watched a rerun of Bad Medicine (which is one of my S1 favs) and the very end with the scene in the park with William, Ms Pensall and Julia, the Julia bit was cut out. They went from where William got hit with the arrow straight to the park scene and just showed him with Ms Pensall and then went to commercial. What was worse is that I sat there waiting patiently for them to come back and show the Julia bit (because I knew it was there) only for them to return and start to play the MM music theme to indicate it was the end of the episode. I was annoyed. I had some friends over the other day and I had introduced them to MM a while back. They’ve been watching from S5 on the CBC website and since they were with me for the weekend they decided to watch my dvds starting from S5. They got to SotWS and suddenly said it was different from what they saw on CBC online. It turned out that bits of where William got cosy with Anna was cut off on the CBC version. It’s been there for years. There was also the one with Dr. Bajjali where Brax told William that he was not always circumspect when pretty, intelligent women were involved, etc. Even the Klondike one where the victim’s wife said something that gave George a clue as to who the killer was got cut out. You take the trouble to bring in a guest character for the episode and then fall all over yourself to scrub out portions of scenes they appear in. What’s that supposed to mean? Every single episode in S1 has something cut out and they need to fix it quickly. For those that have not seen the full version before, they may not know anything is missing whether relevant or not but it will still look weird to them because they don’t know anything was cut. They may simply conclude that the production is poor because the episode doesn’t quite flow or come together like it should. For those that have seen the full version, it is irritating and it ruins the whole viewing experience. Whoever is behind this sort of editing should be asked a few questions. Unfortunately the time slot for CBC is shorter than that on CityTV that MM was originally produced for. Therefore in order to fit the time allotted something has to be cut. The first time they showed S1 on CBC the edit job was simply terrible, cutting great chunks out and missing the ends from many of the episdodes. This time around the editing has been a bit more subtle but still jarring for anyone that has seen it before. Not much to be done unfortunately, if we want to see the earlier seasons on CBC we'll have to put up with it I suppose. I don't like it either. Took the words out of my mouth  ! If you look at early episodes compared to later shows, there's just under a 4 minute difference between the two. I don't like it, but since character development isn't crucial to the mystery, out it goes! |
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Post by snacky on Dec 9, 2014 6:45:51 GMT
I don’t think the editing is all about shippiness or the need to make room for commercials. I just don’t see the point in cutting out bits of episodes that have already been produced and aired in full. This is happening especially with S1 episodes now even in Canada. It ruins the viewer pleasure to say the least. I don’t want to see anything cut from any episode that has already been officially edited and aired. I recently watched a rerun of Bad Medicine (which is one of my S1 favs) and the very end with the scene in the park with William, Ms Pensall and Julia, the Julia bit was cut out. They went from where William got hit with the arrow straight to the park scene and just showed him with Ms Pensall and then went to commercial. What was worse is that I sat there waiting patiently for them to come back and show the Julia bit (because I knew it was there) only for them to return and start to play the MM music theme to indicate it was the end of the episode. I was annoyed. I had some friends over the other day and I had introduced them to MM a while back. They’ve been watching from S5 on the CBC website and since they were with me for the weekend they decided to watch my dvds starting from S5. They got to SotWS and suddenly said it was different from what they saw on CBC online. It turned out that bits of where William got cosy with Anna was cut off on the CBC version. It’s been there for years. There was also the one with Dr. Bajjali where Brax told William that he was not always circumspect when pretty, intelligent women were involved, etc. Even the Klondike one where the victim’s wife said something that gave George a clue as to who the killer was got cut out. You take the trouble to bring in a guest character for the episode and then fall all over yourself to scrub out portions of scenes they appear in. What’s that supposed to mean? Every single episode in S1 has something cut out and they need to fix it quickly. For those that have not seen the full version before, they may not know anything is missing whether relevant or not but it will still look weird to them because they don’t know anything was cut. They may simply conclude that the production is poor because the episode doesn’t quite flow or come together like it should. For those that have seen the full version, it is irritating and it ruins the whole viewing experience. Whoever is behind this sort of editing should be asked a few questions. Unfortunately the time slot for CBC is shorter than that on CityTV that MM was originally produced for. Therefore in order to fit the time allotted something has to be cut. The first time they showed S1 on CBC the edit job was simply terrible, cutting great chunks out and missing the ends from many of the episdodes. This time around the editing has been a bit more subtle but still jarring for anyone that has seen it before. Not much to be done unfortunately, if we want to see the earlier seasons on CBC we'll have to put up with it I suppose. I don't like it either. Is the CBC edit the same as the US syndication edit?  |
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Post by Hodge on Dec 9, 2014 16:11:39 GMT
Unfortunately the time slot for CBC is shorter than that on CityTV that MM was originally produced for. Therefore in order to fit the time allotted something has to be cut. The first time they showed S1 on CBC the edit job was simply terrible, cutting great chunks out and missing the ends from many of the episdodes. This time around the editing has been a bit more subtle but still jarring for anyone that has seen it before. Not much to be done unfortunately, if we want to see the earlier seasons on CBC we'll have to put up with it I suppose. I don't like it either. Is the CBC edit the same as the US syndication edit? I wouldn't know but I doubt it as both times S1 has been aired on CBC the edits have been different. They did a slightly better job this time, perhaps because of all the complaints last time. |
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Post by ziggy on Dec 9, 2014 23:28:17 GMT
Is the CBC edit the same as the US syndication edit? I wouldn't know but I doubt it as both times S1 has been aired on CBC the edits have been different. They did a slightly better job this time, perhaps because of all the complaints last time. I agree that the editing this time around has been better than the first time S1 was aired on CBC or CityTV or whichever, but I don’t understand the need to cut further into S1. I don’t think it’s just about time slots for CBC. They still take a good 15+ minutes of the hour just for ads even with a full episode. S1 episodes are the same length as Ss2-6. Only Ss7+8 are shorter. If they can air Ss2-6 in full, why can’t they do the same for S1? Don’t get me wrong. I am happy that they even show it at all. They never did show S1 before and it seemed it didn’t exist. But I will be happier if they can try to show it in full the next time around. There is also another channel that airs just S1 episodes on Sundays with the same sort of cuts. The WNLO channel. Do you know the broadcaster/carrier for that? |
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Post by Hodge on Dec 10, 2014 0:05:41 GMT
I agree that the editing this time around has been better than the first time S1 was aired on CBC or CityTV or whichever, but I don’t understand the need to cut further into S1. I don’t think it’s just about time slots for CBC. They still take a good 15+ minutes of the hour just for ads even with a full episode. S1 episodes are the same length as Ss2-6. Only Ss7+8 are shorter. If they can air Ss2-6 in full, why can’t they do the same for S1? Don’t get me wrong. I am happy that they even show it at all. They never did show S1 before and it seemed it didn’t exist. But I will be happier if they can try to show it in full the next time around. There is also another channel that airs just S1 episodes on Sundays with the same sort of cuts. The WNLO channel. Do you know the broadcaster/carrier for that? It was originally aired on CityTV up until season 5 when they cancelled it. CBC bought the rights, I thought to the first 5 seasons but maybe not. CBC hasn't aired seasons 2-4, if they have bought them maybe they're keeping them to air during the summer hiatus. The CBC's budget has been decimated in the last couple of years and they're showing more and more commercials. Remember a time when the CBC didn't have commercials at all...? An increasing number of commercials means less time for programming, hopefully we'll never see a time when it's all commercials and no programming but with any more cuts that just may happen! I don't like it but the alternative is no Murdoch so whatever gets it on our screens I'll go along with, even if I do complain every time I see it. We're not at the point yet where all character development is totally gone and the stories still make sense. Until the government increases the budget for CBC get used to shorter programmes and that includes editing of older programmes being re-aired. WNLO is a US channel out of Buffalo. Any channel beginning with W or K is American. All Canadian channels begin with C. |
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Post by ziggy on Dec 10, 2014 22:26:24 GMT
I agree that the editing this time around has been better than the first time S1 was aired on CBC or CityTV or whichever, but I don’t understand the need to cut further into S1. I don’t think it’s just about time slots for CBC. They still take a good 15+ minutes of the hour just for ads even with a full episode. S1 episodes are the same length as Ss2-6. Only Ss7+8 are shorter. If they can air Ss2-6 in full, why can’t they do the same for S1? Don’t get me wrong. I am happy that they even show it at all. They never did show S1 before and it seemed it didn’t exist. But I will be happier if they can try to show it in full the next time around. There is also another channel that airs just S1 episodes on Sundays with the same sort of cuts. The WNLO channel. Do you know the broadcaster/carrier for that? It was originally aired on CityTV up until season 5 when they cancelled it. CBC bought the rights, I thought to the first 5 seasons but maybe not. CBC hasn't aired seasons 2-4, if they have bought them maybe they're keeping them to air during the summer hiatus. The CBC's budget has been decimated in the last couple of years and they're showing more and more commercials. Remember a time when the CBC didn't have commercials at all...? An increasing number of commercials means less time for programming, hopefully we'll never see a time when it's all commercials and no programming but with any more cuts that just may happen! I don't like it but the alternative is no Murdoch so whatever gets it on our screens I'll go along with, even if I do complain every time I see it. We're not at the point yet where all character development is totally gone and the stories still make sense. Until the government increases the budget for CBC get used to shorter programmes and that includes editing of older programmes being re-aired. WNLO is a US channel out of Buffalo. Any channel beginning with W or K is American. All Canadian channels begin with C. Okay, I tried to differentiate the channels this time (I usually just lump them all together as you might have guessed) and yes, it’s mostly the City channels that have been airing Ss2-5 over the years and they have done a good job of putting the reruns out there for so long. It’s one of the things that helped me keep in touch with MM in the last few years. Now that they’ve decided to air S1, I can still hope that they will also air it in full like the other seasons. They are using the same slot time. Perhaps that might help improve things for the US viewers as the editing here seem to be same across board and is only really happening with S1 episodes. City changed their scheduling this season and now moved MM from early evening Saturday/Sunday to about 2am. That’s a bummer. Weekend TV without MM is really boring. I hope they reconsider. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Dec 11, 2014 21:39:32 GMT
City changed their scheduling this season and now moved MM from early evening Saturday/Sunday to about 2am. That’s a bummer. Weekend TV without MM is really boring. I hope they reconsider. Ovation will broadcast Season 8 beginning February 17, 2015. Don't know if they have paid attention to fan remarks or been pressured by CBC. They may have become aware that they are doing a really crappy job with MM and are trying to change their ways. Right. |
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Post by snacky on Dec 12, 2014 3:33:51 GMT
City changed their scheduling this season and now moved MM from early evening Saturday/Sunday to about 2am. That’s a bummer. Weekend TV without MM is really boring. I hope they reconsider. Ovation will broadcast Season 8 beginning February 17, 2015. Don't know if they have paid attention to fan remarks or been pressured by CBC. They may have become aware that they are doing a really crappy job with MM and are trying to change their ways. Right. I think this relates to the fact that the earlier seasons are now syndicated across the US, so Ovation has to "one up" their offering. Have they changed their title yet. If they haven't been cutting MM, or having been cutting it *as much*, they should be featuring this as part of their ad campaign. By cutting the "character development" part off at the end, the US syndication is going to all but eliminate Jilliam, which will probably prevent the development of a native fanbase here. Of course this should benefit the marketing of the MM DVDs - if this could be trumpeted really loudly somehow. US TV version extremely cut, but DVD version is the "real" MM, with a lot more to offer...? |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Dec 12, 2014 16:25:30 GMT
I just received notification that it will start the 21st not the 17th.
There really is no excuse for Ovation to cut MM at all, especially the first five seasons since the episodes were no longer than 44 minutes--that leaves plenty of room for ads.
Shaftsbury/CBC should have done a better job of protecting the integrity of their work and Ovation should be ashamed of itself for destroying the "art" in the construction of all episodes.
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Post by snacky on Dec 12, 2014 17:33:27 GMT
I just received notification that it will start the 21st not the 17th. There really is no excuse for Ovation to cut MM at all, especially the first five seasons since the episodes were no longer than 44 minutes--that leaves plenty of room for ads. Shaftsbury/CBC should have done a better job of protecting the integrity of their work and Ovation should be ashamed of itself for destroying the "art" in the construction of all episodes. The US Syndication that we're talking about isn't The Artful Detective - it's the cut that's being distributed at "Murdoch Mysteries" and playing late at nights and obscure times on weekends on network channels. I've heard that The Artful Detective was also cut some, but don't remember it having that same speeded-up feel when I saw it at a friend's house, and I'm pretty darned sure I saw the "character development" scenes at the end. While Ovation probably desperately needs commercial support, they may not *have* as many commercials to run. |
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! If you look at early episodes compared to later shows, there's just under a 4 minute difference between the two. I don't like it, but since character development isn't crucial to the mystery, out it goes!
