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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 4:06:33 GMT
Hodge. Oh Hodge! I didn’t see that coming at all, not until Giles mentioned Dodger, his dog. My mouth fell open in disbelief. When they brought him in to tell him his secret was no more, my heart broke for him and the tears welled up in my eyes. It’s hard to imagine looking through the windows and not seeing Hodge hovering in the background of SH4. Sitting there huddled close to William and going over what had happened, I felt for them both. It sounded strange when he called William by name but I could understand that he too had his moment of despair and hopelessness as his world shattered all around him. Spending even a week in jail is no easy feat for anyone, let alone someone not criminally inclined. William seemingly looking straight into his soul not knowing what to do to shield him from it all. Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. Yes, this! I'd love to see this have some ramifications for him as opposed to just others. This isn't to say that it hasn't burned him some, but not as much as it has others. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:08:43 GMT
Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. Wow I hadn't looked at it from that angle yet. The altar of truth always does seem to require a sacrifice from William.  FallenBelle was mentioning earlier that she thought William was willing to put Brackenreid in jail if he killed the O'Sheas. I don't think the stakes were that high yet for William. I think in his heart he didn't believe Brackenreid killed the O'Sheas, and he was working to prove he didn't. If he actually believed that Brackenreid had killed the O'Sheas, I'm not sure what he would have done. That would have been a Constance Gardner situation - but worse since Brackenreid was practically a father figure to him. Would he have looked the other way? If he had, then he would be in the situation that Giles was in, precariously balancing two moral orders - one of law/truth, one of family/loyalty. To choose either one is to make a sacrifice, so the only alternative is to learn to live with yourself and the responsibility/consequences of your decision if you "compromise". |
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Post by ziggy on Nov 26, 2014 4:11:35 GMT
This looks like an interesting one if they don’t ruin it with fan service. I hope Stockton finally gets his comeuppance and I am sure Brackenreid will be all too happy to hand it to him. Stockton was the Inspector at SH4 when this happened and Giles was the Detective. Could this be the beginning of the “Everyone’s got something to hide” theme they’ve been promoting since summer? Even Brax was around when this person was buried under SH4. Oooooh! Whilst I think Giles knows more than a thing or two about the victim and what happened, I doubt he’ll be involved in the cover-up. The guy is just too rigid to go along with it. Stockton on the other hand is probably neck deep in covering up something like this. Guess again?  Yes, this one completely threw me . But I like surprises like this! |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:12:16 GMT
Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. Yes, this! I'd love to see this have some ramifications for him as opposed to just others. This isn't to say that it hasn't burned him some, but not as much as it has others. It did: William didn't stop Julia's wedding for the sake of trying to bring one of these situations to a more just resolution...because the ramifications did burn him. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 4:14:39 GMT
Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. Wow I hadn't looked at it from that angle yet. The altar of truth always does seem to require a sacrifice from William. FallenBelle was mentioning earlier that she thought William was willing to put Brackenreid in jail if he killed the O'Sheas. I don't think the stakes were that high yet for William. I think in his heart he didn't believe Brackenreid killed the O'Sheas, and he was working to prove he didn't. If he actually believed that Brackenreid had killed the O'Sheas, I'm not sure what he would have done. That would have been a Constance Gardner situation - but worse since Brackenreid was practically a father figure to him. Would he have looked the other way? If he had, then he would be in the situation that Giles was in, precariously balancing two moral orders - one of law/truth, one of family/loyalty. To choose either one is to make a sacrifice, so the only alternative is to learn to live with yourself and the responsibility/consequences of your decision if you "compromise". I don't have time to look it up right now, but there's a scene with Slorach where he confronts William about whether or not Brax was involved in the deaths of the O'Shea's. William basically tells him that if he's guilty, he will arrest him. This isn't to say that it wouldn't have killed William (it would have), and that he didn't hide evidence (the pin), and that he didn't give Brax more opportunity to prove his innocence than he would have for someone else, but in the end, William would have done it! |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:27:24 GMT
It wasn't perfect, but at least the effort was made. That effort hasn't been made this season. I'm not saying that it won't be fixed, but the longer the show waits to fix it seems to hint that the show isn't trying to fix it. Sorry, but I don't think the UST (while delicious) was integral to the show at all, and the fact that the writers have been playing it like it has been is something of a concern to me. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, IMO. It doesn't have to be that way. What is it that I've said that makes you think I'm suffering from post-marriage panic? I've repeatedly said that I don't have to have non-stop shipper action, and I've been more than happy to discuss non-W/J storylines in the past. My concern is that the writers are done with Julia- and they've just shown that they're okay with sacrificing a character when it serves their purpose. They've written themselves into a corner with Julia, why not do something similar or even edgier with her? Before the wedding you were mainly talking about how it was time for William and Julia to get married, while I was the only one sounding a warning that Julia would be basically useless after the marriage and no matter what they said before the marriage, shippers would realize it 5 minutes after the marriage was over. Now, 5 minutes after the marriage is over, you are sounding the warning that Julia is useless. Why didn't you see that the writers had written Julia into a corner before the marriage? It can' be because she was busy profiling because Julia's actually not in half of season 5, and during 6/7 just as her screen time is devoted to romance and witty repartee as psychological profiling. This season Julia's role has been absorbed by the wedding and the suffragette plot line, so there hasn't been much time for profiling or crime solving yet. That's why I can't see this as anything new in terms of the writers running out of ideas for Julia. This is just Season 6 with "Suffragettes" plugged in where "The Divorce" was before. Nothing has changed except Julia got married, and the nature of the episodes hasn't given us a chance to see how Julia will contribute to crime-solving yet. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:31:31 GMT
I don't have time to look it up right now, but there's a scene with Slorach where he confronts William about whether or not Brax was involved in the deaths of the O'Shea's. William basically tells him that if he's guilty, he will arrest him. This isn't to say that it wouldn't have killed William (it would have), and that he didn't hide evidence (the pin), and that he didn't give Brax more opportunity to prove his innocence than he would have for someone else, but in the end, William would have done it! Yes, I'm referring to the same scene. And William is pocketing the evidence of the pin, so it looks like William is hiding knowledge that Brackenreid might be guilty. But I think of it more in terms of Crime and Punishment/The Murdoch Trap - where all evidence points to Julia, and William must work to exonerate her despite the evidence. At several points evidence is held back to keep biased people from jumping to conclusions. Even Giles holds back evidence at one point! I think William just trusted and hoped Brackenreid didn't do it while making that promise. |
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Post by carco on Nov 26, 2014 4:32:02 GMT
I admit that I haven't seen the Making of...clip yet, but on pg 12 of this thread I posted a link to this week's "TV, eh?" interview with Paul Aitken which, I thought, was a particularly interesting one it was a bottle episode! Answers some questions - but doesn't address why Julia wasn't in the "bottle". Unless she's more expensive than all the others??? Hah, oh were that true!  Yeah, I think I posted it somewhere around page 8/9, and it was indeed enlightening and very interesting. I loved the ep, don't get me wrong. But, I'm getting more and more concerned for Julia's character. Arggghhh! I thought I'd read far enough back to make sure it hadn't already been posted.....sorry Fallenbelle. I'm hoping we'll just have to give it an episode or two more to see how they deal with 'the Murdochs' and Julia specifically. I'd like to see her helping with investigations but I'd also like to see them with individual pursuits as well. In other words I expect it will be business as usual for W & J. In all fairness the did have 3 W & J centric episodes in a row so I'm not worried that Julia wasn't in this one. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 4:39:40 GMT
It wasn't perfect, but at least the effort was made. That effort hasn't been made this season. I'm not saying that it won't be fixed, but the longer the show waits to fix it seems to hint that the show isn't trying to fix it. Sorry, but I don't think the UST (while delicious) was integral to the show at all, and the fact that the writers have been playing it like it has been is something of a concern to me. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, IMO. It doesn't have to be that way. What is it that I've said that makes you think I'm suffering from post-marriage panic? I've repeatedly said that I don't have to have non-stop shipper action, and I've been more than happy to discuss non-W/J storylines in the past. My concern is that the writers are done with Julia- and they've just shown that they're okay with sacrificing a character when it serves their purpose. They've written themselves into a corner with Julia, why not do something similar or even edgier with her? Before the wedding you were mainly talking about how it was time for William and Julia to get married, while I was the only one sounding a warning that Julia would be basically useless after the marriage and no matter what they said before the marriage, shippers would realize it 5 minutes after the marriage was over. Now, 5 minutes after the marriage is over, you are sounding the warning that Julia is useless. Why didn't you see that the writers had written Julia into a corner before the marriage? It can' be because she was busy profiling because Julia's actually not in half of season 5, and during 6/7 just as her screen time is devoted to romance and witty repartee as psychological profiling. This season Julia's role has been absorbed by the wedding and the suffragette plot line, so there hasn't been much time for profiling or crime solving yet. That's why I can't see this as anything new in terms of the writers running out of ideas for Julia. This is just Season 6 with "Suffragettes" plugged in where "The Divorce" was before. Nothing has changed except Julia got married, and the nature of the episodes hasn't given us a chance to see how Julia will contribute to crime-solving yet. Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but I'm not going to repeat myself again-particularly since you seem intent upon attributing beliefs and thoughts to me that I don't have. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:47:13 GMT
I don't know that I'd say it was good only because of the others had been lacking, I think it was a great episode that could only now be done because the show had to build up to it. I want to see more eps like this one-if this is their idea of 10% darker, then perfect! But, please, more Julia in a geeky role please. If I may one-up your sentiment here, perhaps what we're really looking for is a meaty, tragic episode that features Julia? I suppose the Death of Dr. Ogden was supposed to be that, but it didn't really reach the emotional depths of this episode - probably because it mainly supplied random background information, and there were no big personal stakes for Julia herself. I'm not sure how to create the same stakes for Julia. Perhaps she starts secretively investigating a suspicious death (arousing tension and arguments with William) because an abortion-aiding friend may be involved, but she eventually determines the friend is guilty of some form of malpractice - or has to consider William might be morally right about something for once. |
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Post by ziggy on Nov 26, 2014 4:51:21 GMT
Hodge. Oh Hodge! I didn’t see that coming at all, not until Giles mentioned Dodger, his dog. My mouth fell open in disbelief. When they brought him in to tell him his secret was no more, my heart broke for him and the tears welled up in my eyes. It’s hard to imagine looking through the windows and not seeing Hodge hovering in the background of SH4. Sitting there huddled close to William and going over what had happened, I felt for them both. It sounded strange when he called William by name but I could understand that he too had his moment of despair and hopelessness as his world shattered all around him. Spending even a week in jail is no easy feat for anyone, let alone someone not criminally inclined. William seemingly looking straight into his soul not knowing what to do to shield him from it all. Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. That's one difference between William and Brax there. A similar situation in Kung Fu Crabtree when the brother decided to take the blame for his sister's action and George didn't think it was right or fair. Brax told him to honor the man's wishes to save his sister. How would William have handled that, I wonder? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 4:53:57 GMT
Once again William's insistence on the truth at any cost has hurt someone close. When will he learn to leave it when someone is willing to take the blame? I guess the answer is never but I sometimes wish he'd just accept it. That's one difference between William and Brax there. A similar situation in Kung Fu Crabtree when the brother decided to take the blame for his sister's action and George didn't think it was right or fair. Brax told him to honor the man's wishes to save his sister. How would William have handled that, I wonder? Oooh, excellent question. Excellent, indeed. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 4:57:05 GMT
It wasn't perfect, but at least the effort was made. That effort hasn't been made this season. I'm not saying that it won't be fixed, but the longer the show waits to fix it seems to hint that the show isn't trying to fix it. Sorry, but I don't think the UST (while delicious) was integral to the show at all, and the fact that the writers have been playing it like it has been is something of a concern to me. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, IMO. It doesn't have to be that way. What is it that I've said that makes you think I'm suffering from post-marriage panic? I've repeatedly said that I don't have to have non-stop shipper action, and I've been more than happy to discuss non-W/J storylines in the past. My concern is that the writers are done with Julia- and they've just shown that they're okay with sacrificing a character when it serves their purpose. They've written themselves into a corner with Julia, why not do something similar or even edgier with her? Whilst I'm a shipper, albeit a reluctant one, the show is called Murdoch Mysteries, not 'at home with the Murdochs' and not even 'at work with the Murdochs'. So, whilst I really enjoy the scenes with W&J, they're not integral to the show for me. If they ever do become integral to the show it will be a soap opera and I hope that day never comes as I'll have to stop watching on principle. Btw, I enjoyed Julia much more as the coroner than I have in either private practice or psychiatry. Shame we can't get back to that but with Emily firmly ensconsed in the morgue that will never happen.  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 4:58:00 GMT
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but I'm not going to repeat myself again-particularly since you seem intent upon attributing beliefs and thoughts to me that I don't have. Also, forgive me if I seem to be harping on it. Let me explain why. It drives me crazy when people (NOT YOU) demand the marriage of their OTP, insisting they won't find the show boring afterward, then after the marriage they suddenly realize it's boring. My fear with *your* posts on the subject is you will start a bandwagon that people will "suddenly realize" is true - when actually we haven't even seen yet what Julia's post-marriage role will be. So I was originally trying to avert you from that path, and now I've ended up outright arguing with you about it, which is not what I want to do. Now I'm just asking you as a favor: please don't plant the earworm that Julia became useless after the marriage yet. >.< Give the writers a chance.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 5:08:52 GMT
I don't know that I'd say it was good only because of the others had been lacking, I think it was a great episode that could only now be done because the show had to build up to it. I want to see more eps like this one-if this is their idea of 10% darker, then perfect! But, please, more Julia in a geeky role please. If I may one-up your sentiment here, perhaps what we're really looking for is a meaty, tragic episode that features Julia? I suppose the Death of Dr. Ogden was supposed to be that, but it didn't really reach the emotional depths of this episode - probably because it mainly supplied random background information, and there were no big personal stakes for Julia herself. I'm not sure how to create the same stakes for Julia. Perhaps she starts secretively investigating a suspicious death (arousing tension and arguments with William) because an abortion-aiding friend may be involved, but she eventually determines the friend is guilty of some form of malpractice - or has to consider William might be morally right about something for once. While I wouldn't say no to it (would in fact embrace such an episode), I just want some more of geeky Julia-something that has been missing this season. She doesn't have to be the central focus of the episode. Agreed about the Death of Dr. Ogden-it started to go there, but then stopped. I guess it was meant to set the stage for William's ultimatum proposal, when it really wasn't needed. |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT