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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 3:53:57 GMT
I'll watch the episode with an open mind, and I may even enjoy it. But, it doesn't alleviate my concern that they've largely written her character out of the show-there's been a gradual decline in her story lines for a few seasons now, and they're just coming up with little tidbits to keep William's girlfriend/wife involved. She used to be more than that, and it makes me sad. I can't completely disagree with that. Most of us are happiest when William and Julia are working together to solve a case. The writers fundamentally changed that focus when they chose to let her leave in order to delay the shipper arc. Too extreme in my view. Julia was more than that and it makes me sad too. I'm just going to put my faith in the writers that they can get the magic of the ensemble back on track in a way that makes sense and isn't just fluff. I like the suffragette arc, but it doesn't restore my faith that the show has any intention of restoring Julia's character-Mrs. B is a strong woman too, but she's not an integral on-screen presence either-we mostly hear of her through Mr. B. They need to do something to restore her role, but with each episode that goes by where they haven't done it, it increases the odds of the show having no intention of ever doing it. I don't think they'll kill a character off, but if they do, Julia's the front runner, IMO. It may not be their intention to do so, but if I were Helene, I'd be pissed what they'd done to my character and I wouldn't blame her at all for leaving. She wouldn't be the first actress to do it either. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 3:55:30 GMT
I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Secrets came to light alright. Did anyone else wince when William told his? And I am wondering what the fallout will be from that. Weeeee - William did have a skeleton in the closet?!  Didn't catch it when I was scanning the tweets on my Kindle an hour ago (it only shows top tweets, and they go by fast). Maybe it's in the forum posts somewhere. *starts scrolling* Snacky we all know the secret. It is the Constance Gardner situation. I am just wondering if William will face disciplinary action for breaking the law. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 3:55:55 GMT
Julia has never been treated as a principle by the writers. They want her to remain a roughly equivalent member of an ensemble cast which are treated like permatemps or piece-workers. It's reasonable for the actors to use the freedom this gives them. Why pay the cow a retainer or a salary when you can get the milk for free? I'm going to disagree-because she was once more vital and central than Higgins, Jackson, Stockton, Giles, Perkins, etc. While not THE lead, she used to be one of the core four: Brackenreid, Murdoch, Crabtree, and Ogden. Now, she's just William's arm candy, and that kinda pisses me off. Even though Julia's work was vital to William's ability to solve cases (a fact he realized like a punch to the stomach in Tattered and Torn), William still had to go out to the morgue to see her. So in a way, Julia was not as "core" as Crabtree and Brackenreid. I agree with lovemondays, though - Julia lost a lot of relevance when she got on the train to Buffalo. Now Emily helps William solve the cases. I do think Julia opening up a private CSI lab is the way to solve it. I'm not sure if Helene will see it this way, though. I think she wanted to go into psychiatry because the morgue stuff made her queasy. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 3:57:02 GMT
Weeeee - William did have a skeleton in the closet?! Didn't catch it when I was scanning the tweets on my Kindle an hour ago (it only shows top tweets, and they go by fast). Maybe it's in the forum posts somewhere. *starts scrolling* Snacky we all know the secret. It is the Constance Gardner situation. I am just wondering if William will face disciplinary action for breaking the law. Oh he confessed it to Giles? Or did Giles already know? |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:00:03 GMT
I don't think they'll kill a character off, but if they do, Julia's the front runner, IMO. It may not be their intention to do so, but if I were Helene, I'd be what they'd done to my character and I wouldn't blame her at all for leaving. She wouldn't be the first actress to do it either. When I was saying this before the marriage, people were threatening to stone me to death.  But really it's too soon to go there - it doesn't give the MM team a chance to show what their plans are to beat the "Moonlighting Curse". |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 4:00:25 GMT
It's not that there wasn't any shippiness that concerns me, it's the marginalization of a once strong female character to fluff when she does appear-which is what Julia is quickly becoming, IMO. It's like the writers, who can only handle one woman on the show apparently, are now developing Emily's character (long neglected) at the expense of Julia's. It's not a good sign. They wrote Julia into this corner the minute they made her a psychiatrist - it's a "soft science", a "social studies" - it's a "women's field". And that problem is magnified by the marriage because the UST no longer keeps Julia relevant - that's what I kept trying to warn people about. I'm kind of bummed it's coming up only a few episodes after, the marriage, though. Hang in there, lol! Peter Mitchell asked for some faith after he "pulled the trigger"! If Emily has something strong to do in this ep, then I don't think the writers have thrown "women" under the bus: what makes women interesting in MM is their struggle to take on hardcore men's roles - like the sciences, like detective field work, like wielding the gun - against the restrictive feminine stereotypes of the era. But - (oh no!) - Julia got shunted into a "soft science". She's in a female stereotype. That just sucks. Dr. Roberts was cool in the role of an alienist. Julia is not. GET JULIA BACK IN THE CSI LAB! Trying to watch the ep now, but I keep having to take buffer breaks. Grrrr, bandwidth. But, even with psychiatry, they could have done more, and did in season 6, IMO. Rather than expand upon that usefulness she provided in 6, they chose to diminish her character even more in 7 and further still in 8. I also hate the argument of "soft science is for women" because that diminishes the valuable contribution of the work of untold women in this field. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 4:02:49 GMT
While I understand some of your concern I doubt that the writers will marginalize Julia, after all she is standing for parliament and with the fan interest in the suffrage issue, I cannot imagine how Julia's presence will be diminished. She won't be standing for parliament long since Margaret Haile is the historical candidate! I can't wait to see the reason she bows out! I hope that's part of the 10% darker season...! Maybe she gets pregnant.....or has some other health issue. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 4:08:43 GMT
I don't think they'll kill a character off, but if they do, Julia's the front runner, IMO. It may not be their intention to do so, but if I were Helene, I'd be what they'd done to my character and I wouldn't blame her at all for leaving. She wouldn't be the first actress to do it either. When I was saying this before the marriage, people were threatening to stone me to death. But really it's too soon to go there - it doesn't give the MM team a chance to show what their plans are to beat the "Moonlighting Curse". But that's just it-it doesn't have to the end if you choose not to do a hack job of it. But marriage aside, her character was in decline long before she married William. So far from what I've seen of the episode, her character isn't missed. Which is part of the larger problem. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:08:46 GMT
She won't be standing for parliament long since Margaret Haile is the historical candidate! I can't wait to see the reason she bows out! I hope that's part of the 10% darker season...! Maybe she gets pregnant.....or has some other health issue. Or that. But frankly I don't want to see a pregnancy this year. I'd like that to be its own arc involving Julia consulting specialists and searching for ways to get pregnant first.  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:10:12 GMT
When I was saying this before the marriage, people were threatening to stone me to death. But really it's too soon to go there - it doesn't give the MM team a chance to show what their plans are to beat the "Moonlighting Curse". But that's just it-it doesn't have to the end if you choose not to do a hack job of it. But marriage aside, her character was in decline long before she married William. So far from what I've seen of the episode, her character isn't missed. Which is part of the larger problem. That's why the shippy parts always look patched in to non-shippers. And it LOOKS like writers are trying to splice in shippy parts. Julia is not a natural part of the storyline if she's not integral to solving the cases. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:15:28 GMT
Trying to watch the ep now, but I keep having to take buffer breaks. Grrrr, bandwidth. I also hate the argument of "soft science is for women" because that diminishes the valuable contribution of the work of untold women in this field. Freud and Jung weren't women either. But never the less: the stereotype is that psychological stuff is "soft" and lab stuff is "hard". Julia has to be doing the "hard" stuff to be considered doing something "useful" instead of something "peripheral" or "designy" or "cultural"... |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:20:06 GMT
No Julia in any capacity? This does not bode well for my concerns...she's supposed to be a principal. I don't see why Julia's absence should be considered significant. There have been lots of episodes in which she doesn't appear and IMO her presence in this episode would have been a distraction. I agree that this was well written and well acted. I thought that Giles and Murdoch behaved in ways that were true to their characters and it was a very affecting episode. After all is said and done, William trudges home to the hotel. What conversation will he have with Julia there? Will that conversation occur over dinner? By the fire? In the bathtub? In bed? The level of "Julia" may be implied by the intensity of the episode.  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 4:24:24 GMT
Even George's dialogue was devoid of lightness, When somebody raised some suspicions about George on Twitter, I flashed on George's threat to make Reginald Poundsett "not so pretty" in Anything You Can Do! It is possible that George started out in the Constabulary a bit rougher around the edges than the George we see now!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 4:23:58 GMT
Snacky we all know the secret. It is the Constance Gardner situation. I am just wondering if William will face disciplinary action for breaking the law. Oh he confessed it to Giles? Or did Giles already know? Giles already knew. I think this is a landmark moment in a couple of ways. When William came back from the Klondike, he wanted to make a full confession. The moral standard which he had set for himself demanded that he be as transparent as glass in his profession. William was only thinking of himself and it took Brackenreid giving him a verbal slap in the head to make him realize that it would also ruin the Inspector, who had really stuck his neck out for him. At this moment, William had to learn to live with his own actions, without the catharsis of confession, for the greater good. He never doubted that what he did was the right thing, although it cost him Julia. And now he had to live with the cost. Now the secret is out. Stockton knew about it too, but I wonder who else already knows? Or will find out? need to re watch to see if there are any clues. William does not have to hide it anymore. Now he has to live with the secret being out, and the possible damage to his reputation from the more conservative types in authority. I wonder how much Julia knows. did they ever have a conversation about this? Sorry for rambling. Now I need to go back to Season 5... |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2014 4:24:50 GMT
OMG! I thoroughly enjoyed this. I am off to celebrate and I'll be back at some point in the future to share my thoughts. Tra la la la la......  !!!! Yay!! Ziggy got what she wanted. To be honest, if anyone doesn't like this ep then they shouldn't be watching MM! |
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!!!!