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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 17:19:44 GMT
I'm glad Penelope Marsh turned out to be an honest woman and not Williams lackey. Someone on fb wondered why she was needed but I think a woman was definitely right for the position she was given. I doubt a man would have taken the trouble to read about W's exploits and form an independent opinion. I feel a man would have been more likely to just get on with the job he was given. Miss Marsh seemed to be intrigued by W's character and integrity and it was obvious that he's earned the loyalty of the people around him. Glad to see Davis is going to get the justice he deserves, though I can't help liking the character. Richard Clarkin is a great actor and plays Davis chillingly well as the man you love to hate, I bet he had fun. Not much to say about George, I didn't believe he was dead as he's too integral to the core group and losing one constable was bad but George would have ended the show for too many people. Of course if JH wanted to leave nothing could be done. The reunion with W was surprising given George's habit of frustrating him. However as W thought he was dead I guess it was a pleasant surprise, but a little over the top IMO. A quick word about Henry Higgins. I've always liked Henry as he was always the voice of reason to George's flights of fancy but all that changed and I felt the writers were doing him a disservice. Yes, he was young, green and lazy but not a thief or a cad. I'm hoping the writers will bring him back to the character we had in the earlier seasons. It certainly lookes like he's grown a little from his experiences of late. I figured Brackenreid would get the jump on Davis but thought he'd have his own gun. A bit dumb going into that situation unarmed. I wonder if he would have gone back and killed Davis, I doubt anyone would realize it was him and he'd probably get away with it. The less said about Williams and Graham the better, hopefully Graham gets his due from the testimony of the others. And now to William. Well, he got himself into this mess and it's lucky he's got good friends to get him out of it. Someone said W didn't do much, how could he until he was free to move about? When he finally could do something he was his usual masterful self. I like this new W, there was a hardness to him we haven't seen before and it suits him, and yet he still had compassion for Davis. W was never naive but he did have an innocence about him despite his job, I think that innocence was lost in the last two episodes. His threat to Miss Marsh should she not be truthful about helping him was the first time I remember him threatening a woman that wasn't a criminal. I loved the commanding way he put Graham down and when George apologized for hitting Graham W's reply was chillingly unlike him in content and tone. I can't help but play that over and over and every time I pump my fist and say "YES!" I loved the way the last scene of Hell to Pay was repeated with the roles reversed, quite apropos I think. Re Penelope Marsh: I think you have a good point that a man likely wouldn't have taken the time to form her own opinion. I'm sure Williams installed her to simply follow orders but he shot himself in the foot. Didn't he say she had a fair bit of experience in Britain? Likewise, I am of 2 minds about Davis. Clarkin is a wonderful actor to lose but Davis need to get a PERMANENT heave-ho. I completely agree with your views on Henry Higgins. I am willing to let my disbelief go re Brackenreid showing up without a gun because his character needed to use some fists on Davis. Not surprising that he was able to disarm the weasel so easily. Brackenreid is one of our heroes and it's important that he does it his way, IMO. Peter Mitchell has said this season is going to be darker and edgier. This harder William makes sense to me given that everything he holds dear was nearly shattered. We have seen glimmers of ruthlessness in the past such as the way Wm threatened Dr. Tash with putting Julia on the stand and when he charged Charlie and Rebecca with the murder of her parents in Love and Human Remains. There has been a significant turnover of writing staff for this season so the timing is right for a new feel to things. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 17:21:48 GMT
On Mouna's Twitter she posted that she'll be in a new show on BET. There was no word on how that will effect her availability for MM. I didn't know that. It would be easy to cover her absence by simply referring to her studies. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 17:24:02 GMT
So, it was Williams who had the constables shot, then? I'm still not clear whether is was Williams or Graham. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 17:31:19 GMT
Okay, so this is days late and I'm probably not going to say anything that hasn't already been said, but now that I've managed to outlast a certain toddler who constantly wants to be played with, read to, etc., here's my two cents. This was indeed a well-written episode with only one discernible plot hole as far as I can tell: Hodge pointed out somewhere that in 1018, both Williams and Graham managed to touch the weapon, which should mean that there should be two sets of prints on it. Is this a plot hole, or did the writers choose to ignore Graham's prints so that he can rise again in the future? Something tell me that this is not the last we've seen of Graham...I just hope he's more like a dark cloud hanging over them and not that he turns into another Gillies who enjoys torturing Julia to get to Murdoch. That's been done. Next. Okay, Watts has grown on me as well, and I hope that they integrate him into the show and not have him take away from it. I've also seen where Mouna Traore is now on a new series, and I worry that this means we won't see her anymore. Hopefully, she still makes the occasional appearance. I'm not sure why, but I wasn't buying George's death for a moment. I knew he was alive...and how awesome that they were all reunited at Hodge's bar! If he's out, that means Giles might be out as well...I would have loved to have seen him here, but I don't know where he would have fit in, tbh. I also knew Nina was playing Graham, but what I can't figure out is why did Graham take Miss Marsh to the Star Room? Was Graham planning on taking Nina in front of Miss Marsh? Why? Just for the creepy factor? BAMFY Julia and Nina FTW! Rebecca was pretty bad ass too. She's just a medical student but she kept her cool and performed the surgery to save George. Well played! Can I just say that I giggled when William drugged the douche cop? "I should get out of this" Julia referring to her disguise. "Are you sure that's wise?" William in response. Which raises the question, is William merely concerned about her safety (natch), but is he also aroused by Victor/Victoria? I honestly don't know... Neither Brax nor Julia getting the response that George got from William, lol! Yet, it worked for me and didn't seem at all unnatural. Our core four was back, and it was indeed glorious! Bravo! The plot hole is a big one. Graham is the truly evil megalomaniac who gets spineless, greedy people like Williams to do their bidding. Williams will be hung for the murder of Dobbs and conspiracy to commit murder for Lydia Hall. William told Graham that they WILL find this foot soldiers but I have a feeling that there isn't enough to hang him too. My suspicion is Graham may cut a deal in order to root out the corruption on the Board of Control. That particular group of cronies has been causing trouble since last season and it needs to be addressed at some point. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 17:33:24 GMT
"Are you sure that's wise?" William in response. Which raises the question, is William merely concerned about her safety (natch), but is he also aroused by Victor/Victoria? I honestly don't know... Are you back on about the tie....?  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 18:58:16 GMT
Re Penelope Marsh: I think you have a good point that a man likely wouldn't have taken the time to form her own opinion. I'm sure Williams installed her to simply follow orders but he shot himself in the foot. Didn't he say she had a fair bit of experience in Britain? Likewise, I am of 2 minds about Davis. Clarkin is a wonderful actor to lose but Davis need to get a PERMANENT heave-ho. I completely agree with your views on Henry Higgins. I am willing to let my disbelief go re Brackenreid showing up without a gun because his character needed to use some fists on Davis. Not surprising that he was able to disarm the weasel so easily. Brackenreid is one of our heroes and it's important that he does it his way, IMO. Peter Mitchell has said this season is going to be darker and edgier. This harder William makes sense to me given that everything he holds dear was nearly shattered. We have seen glimmers of ruthlessness in the past such as the way Wm threatened Dr. Tash with putting Julia on the stand and when he charged Charlie and Rebecca with the murder of her parents in Love and Human Remains. There has been a significant turnover of writing staff for this season so the timing is right for a new feel to things. Williams said Penelope Marsh had manage larger departments in London. I'm thinking this is a nod to Tamzin Outhwaite's stint on New Tricks. Davis definitely needs to go to jail this time, I doubt he'll hang though. I'm hoping we get more than child friendly episodes. MM didn't start out as a family show, let's face it City doesn't do family shows, I'm not really sure what you'd call most of them! I'm not bothered about dark per se but I would like some of that edginess back if that's through dark then so be it. I know, I keep going on about edginess but it really did add something to the earlier seasons that's been missing recently. William has always had a ruthless streak when it comes to the job, quite the opposite of his personal life where he kowtows to Julia most of the time. I like that duality about him, part of his idiosyncrasy IMO. Unfortunately I suspect we won't be seeing any consequences from the first episode. I think there should be but who am I...? I think the next ep is several months on. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 18:59:38 GMT
On Mouna's Twitter she posted that she'll be in a new show on BET. There was no word on how that will effect her availability for MM. I didn't know that. It would be easy to cover her absence by simply referring to her studies. Rebecca James is in 11-02, I saw her in the teaser. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 19:00:39 GMT
So, it was Williams who had the constables shot, then? I'm still not clear whether is was Williams or Graham. It wasn't really clear but as Davis said it wasn't Graham the only other suspect would be Williams. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 19:04:23 GMT
"Are you sure that's wise?" William in response. Which raises the question, is William merely concerned about her safety (natch), but is he also aroused by Victor/Victoria? I honestly don't know... Are you back on about the tie....? I have to admit W's reaction to J when he first saw her and said she had changed was odd, his eyes kind of lit up. I was then surprised by his response about being sure about changing, he gave her a good look over. Maybe HE should have fondled HER tie!  |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 19:12:28 GMT
Are you back on about the tie....? I have to admit W's reaction to J when he first saw her and said she had changed was odd, his eyes kind of lit up. I was then surprised by his response about being sure about changing, he gave her a good look over. Maybe HE should have fondled HER tie! That would have been nice twist!  |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 19:15:36 GMT
Williams said Penelope Marsh had manage larger departments in London. I'm thinking this is a nod to Tamzin Outhwaite's stint on New Tricks. I'm not familiar with her work so if you think it's a nod then it probably is. Her performance was top notch in MM. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 19:16:51 GMT
I keep meaning to ask this, and I keep forgetting to... Miss Marsh. That lady who took over the running of SH4 temporarily. Did she appear in any other episodes? I keep thinking like I've seen her before somewhere, and I can't remember where or why. Or is it my memory playing tricks on me? Tamzin Outhwaite has been in a lot of things over the years. I've long been a fan of hers.  If I were to look at some of her work, what would be on your short list? |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 19:35:18 GMT
Williams said Penelope Marsh had manage larger departments in London. I'm thinking this is a nod to Tamzin Outhwaite's stint on New Tricks. I'm not familiar with her work so if you think it's a nod then it probably is. Her performance was top notch in MM. I have seen quite a few New Tricks episodes but only a couple with her in, I saw more of the early seasons before she joined the team. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2017 19:52:03 GMT
This was indeed a well-written episode with only one discernible plot hole as far as I can tell: Hodge pointed out somewhere that in 1018, both Williams and Graham managed to touch the weapon, which should mean that there should be two sets of prints on it. Is this a plot hole, or did the writers choose to ignore Graham's prints so that he can rise again in the future? Something tell me that this is not the last we've seen of Graham...I just hope he's more like a dark cloud hanging over them and not that he turns into another Gillies who enjoys torturing Julia to get to Murdoch. That's been done. Next. Okay, Watts has grown on me as well, and I hope that they integrate him into the show and not have him take away from it. I've also seen where Mouna Traore is now on a new series, and I worry that this means we won't see her anymore. Hopefully, she still makes the occasional appearance. Can I just say that I giggled when William drugged the douche cop? Our core four was back, and it was indeed glorious! Bravo! I suspect they conveniently ignored the fact that Graham had handled the garotte as they wanted it to be clear evidence against Williams. Now if they'd thought to have Graham wear gloves in HtP then it wouldn't have been a problem. I've always liked Watts, he's an intriguing chap. However I don't want him in too many eps unless he's standing in for someone else's absence i.e. George or Brackenreid, in which case I'm okay with it, but we really don't NEED another detective. There was some discussion on fb about what W had used to drug his guard. I enhanced a screenshot from that scene and I think it was laudanum, I could just make out AUDA on the label. How convenient it was right next to the sherry. Yes, our core is back and working great together, lets hope no one else is inserted as it's not necessary. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 2, 2017 21:15:59 GMT
There was some discussion on fb about what W had used to drug his guard. I enhanced a screenshot from that scene and I think it was laudanum, I could just make out AUDA on the label. How convenient it was right next to the sherry. Yes, our core is back and working great together, lets hope no one else is inserted as it's not necessary. The drug question has come up in several places. The majority seem to believe it was laudanum too. Having the bottle right next to the sherry is VERY convenient....begs the question, why was it there? Perhaps Julia is using it as a sleep aid? She does like to pretend everything is fine on the surface but then self-medicates to avoid addressing the issues. Curious though that she sought help for her nightmares after Murdoch in Toyland. I can't recall any other instance. |
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