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Post by murdochic on Apr 16, 2013 21:54:22 GMT
I liked how they picked apart the evidence and showed how it was all fabricated, and how the shooting was done. But I did have a bit of a problem with how liberal they got with what was possible in that time period. The whole latex mask thing was stupid. No mask looks that realistic even today. That part went a bit too far. As did the quality of Gillies film recording, it just wasn't possible to have that in 1900.
I really enjoyed the teamwork. They all went to great lengths to clear her showing they're true friends. Even Giles was helping which was surprising and fun to watch. The episode was really good, entertaining and suspenseful. I wasn't bothered by the end scene with Gillies, he's the super villain of MM so they had to leave it with the possibility he'll be back.
It was sweet of Julia that she didn't hold any grudges against anyone except Gillies. I can understand why she wouldn't want to celebrate at the end. She naturally would blame herself for Darcy's death and she'll need some time to get over that. I'm not really worried it will cause long term problems for W/J in S7, this episode proved how much they truly love each other and they are haven't broken up, it just needs some time. I expect all the romantic stuff to come during the next series, a proposal and wedding later in the season. Though with it being MM it won't be without problems, but they'll get through it. Finally, I want to say how good Helene and Yannick's acting was, especially Helene's when Julia was told William was missing and at the execution.
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Post by renaissancegirl on Apr 17, 2013 1:14:02 GMT
I totally agree with you murdochic, regarding the liberties the writers had taken with this episode. Although I do understand that it is a television show, as a Canadian historian by profession, I found that overall, this season was very sloppy in many areas, which made me frustrated to say the least! I have always been impressed with the series attempt to portray Canadian society and culture during the late 19th-century (and, now, early 20th-century), while balancing the interest of 21st-century viewers, but this season seemed to stretch things a little too far. However, I agree that the acting was really good. I did enjoy watching the teamwork in this episode as well. It was nice to see Giles finally "turn around," although he is first and foremost a cop and has a strong sense of justice, so it is not surprising that he changed his mind. I liked how we really saw how sharp Giles really is in this episode, and one can see why he is Chief Constable (although he is still annoying as heck!).
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Post by barbarama on Apr 17, 2013 1:15:27 GMT
Alright first I'll talk about the entire episode putting aside the W/J storyline for a moment because I'm still trying to get a grip over it. Until the 41 or 42 minutes or so it was really a tremendous and gripping episode, indeed it kept me at the edge of my seat until almost the end (I don't have nails anymore and I did scream at my screen several times) I'm just a bit saddened that the ending just kind of flattened this momentum for me that's all. When we saw at the beginning Julia hanging on that rope and then that skeleton I was really terrified and spooked out for sure (I didn't watch any trailers so I didn't see that scene prior). Then when they went back 1 week earlier and we saw the "team" putting the evidences together I was impressed, I never even once considered the latex mask and fingerprints so I was in shock. Brackenreid got me to chuckle with his "tea" line, he really is funny and so supportive as well. Then the back and forth scenes in the prison were just heartbreaking to see, such sadness the acting by everybody involved was beyond spectacular. I was also really surprised that Giles would be willing to help so quickly I really thought he would give them a tuff time. After that when they went looking for that woman in Hamilton to discover what happened I was like "Noooo the alibi is gone!!!" and also discovering the way Darcy was killed, evil genius that Gillies for sure!!! I was also impressed by the morse code that William put together, he really is the "Mac Gyver" of the 1900s  I was happy to see Tess Moffat but I would have preferred we would have seen her trying to help the case with her investigations skills. And also when Murdoch made his decision I was pulling my hair screaming to Brackenreid and George to get going quickly. The scene with the rope at the prison was just incredibly sad and my stomach was in a knot until finally a happier resolution....but Now for Julia & William last scene I'm just perplex as to why the writers decided to complicate again their storyline and I'm disappointed that somehow the situation between them is getting unresolved. Why dragging it again? I would have hoped that after so many years they could have had some kind of happiness and it looks like it's not getting there at least for now...sigh  . I would say bittersweet is what I feel about this ending. Now for the last scene with Gillies, given the look that he gave I have a feeling he might come back I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of that idea even if the character is brilliant, the only thing that I would consider a good idea with having Gillies coming back is that this time the entire team try to save William and Julia has to use her psychological skills to figure out the mindset of this psychopath. So that's it for again my very long post for the last episode this season. I'm so grateful to the cast, writers and crew for an amazing season which was a great ride and so glad for CBC which has picked up the show, giving it a new life and the recognition it deserves and I'm looking forward to more tremendous episodes in season 7!!! I have to keep being positive about this  |
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Post by murdochic on Apr 17, 2013 2:57:17 GMT
Alright first I'll talk about the entire episode putting aside the W/J storyline for a moment because I'm still trying to get a grip over it. Until the 41 or 42 minutes or so it was really a tremendous and gripping episode, indeed it kept me at the edge of my seat until almost the end (I don't have nails anymore and I did scream at my screen several times) I'm just a bit saddened that the ending just kind of flattened this momentum for me that's all. When we saw at the beginning Julia hanging on that rope and then that skeleton I was really terrified and spooked out for sure (I didn't watch any trailers so I didn't see that scene prior). Then when they went back 1 week earlier and we saw the "team" putting the evidences together I was impressed, I never even once considered the latex mask and fingerprints so I was in shock. Brackenreid got me to chuckle with his "tea" line, he really is funny and so supportive as well. Then the back and forth scenes in the prison were just heartbreaking to see, such sadness the acting by everybody involved was beyond spectacular. I was also really surprised that Giles would be willing to help so quickly I really thought he would give them a tuff time. After that when they went looking for that woman in Hamilton to discover what happened I was like "Noooo the alibi is gone!!!" and also discovering the way Darcy was killed, evil genius that Gillies for sure!!! I was also impressed by the morse code that William put together, he really is the "Mac Gyver" of the 1900s I was happy to see Tess Moffat but I would have preferred we would have seen her trying to help the case with her investigations skills. And also when Murdoch made his decision I was pulling my hair screaming to Brackenreid and George to get going quickly. The scene with the rope at the prison was just incredibly sad and my stomach was in a knot until finally a happier resolution....but Now for Julia & William last scene I'm just perplex as to why the writers decided to complicate again their storyline and I'm disappointed that somehow the situation between them is getting unresolved. Why dragging it again? I would have hoped that after so many years they could have had some kind of happiness and it looks like it's not getting there at least for now...sigh . I would say bittersweet is what I feel about this ending. Now for the last scene with Gillies, given the look that he gave I have a feeling he might come back I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of that idea even if the character is brilliant, the only thing that I would consider a good idea with having Gillies coming back is that this time the entire team try to save William and Julia has to use her psychological skills to figure out the mindset of this psychopath. So that's it for again my very long post for the last episode this season. I'm so grateful to the cast, writers and crew for an amazing season which was a great ride and so glad for CBC which has picked up the show, giving it a new life and the recognition it deserves and I'm looking forward to more tremendous episodes in season 7!!! I have to keep being positive about this I also wish they'd left W/J in a happier place because they deserve it. But Darcy's murder was obviously going to be used to cause them drama. They haven't broken up and they showed how much they love each other, so it will work out. It's just being used as a way to drag out their storyline next season. They'll take it slow while they get over the guilt and it will build towards a proposal and marriage. They always make W/J work for their happiness, but it's a good thing that they didn't break them up this time like they did the other times they wanted to drag things out. That's progress in some ways. |
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Post by barbarama on Apr 17, 2013 3:12:50 GMT
I guess I should get a dose of your optimism Murdochic Indeed let's concentrate on the fact that at least she didn't go away to Buffalo or he didn't go away to the Yukon and they're not engaged to other people so indeed in that aspect it's progress |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 17, 2013 5:18:19 GMT
If every relationship was as complicated as theirs, humanity would have died out long ago.  I mean, it's getting to the point where even IF Julia could have children, she wouldn't be able to as she'd be too old. :/ Anyway, I'm not so angry with that ending anymore but I'm really curious to see the alternate one. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 17, 2013 5:20:39 GMT
Oh and I just realized I am now a God. What offerings will you present me mortals?
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Post by hannikan on Apr 17, 2013 8:23:26 GMT
Finally got to see it today. I agree with Murdochic.
Yeah, it was a great episode. Even though I knew some of what would happen, it was very suspenseful and had me on the edge of my seat. The very beginning was super creepy! I thought it was funny that Thomas gave up alcohol until Julia was set free. I was not expecting Gillies to have set up a machine in Darcy's home to execute him. And then the Murdoch trap was in his home, too. I was right about how he did the phone call. I thought he'd switched the fingerprint files, but I guess he got Julia's fingerprint from things she'd touched in the asylum (where he was taping her phone calls) using wax, then wiped his own prints off the gun and planted her prints on it. Gillies definitely will be back. His evil grin was to signal that he would escape again. Did everyone recognize Tess Moffatt in the scene at the telephone exchange? I thought she would be in the episode more than she was. I thought there might be something btwn her and George. But I wonder if she will be back again.
I can understand those who were upset by the ending, but I think it will work out. I don't think they broke up at all. I'm not surprised Julia didn't feel right about celebrating with William so quickly afterward. She's just sorting through her grief and guilt about Darcy's death, which was prominent in Crime and Punishment, too. I don't think that's strange at all. It's true that Gillies would never have murdered Darcy if he wasn't Julia's husband and if Julia wasn't in love with William. He had nothing against Darcy, he was collateral damage in Gillies' revenge against William. His murder was not Julia's fault, but it's understandable that she would feel some guilt about his death. In those days, people felt guilt more strongly usually because of the way the churches preached. People were taught that every negative thing that happened to an individual, was a direct result of something he or she had done wrong/a sin. Although Julia is not a particularly religious person as an adult, she would still have been influenced by these teachings growing up. So the fact that she feels responsible, is very believable, esp. since she's already felt guilty about marrying Darcy when she still loved William. She already felt like she brought undo burden on Darcy in that. It would have been odd if she'd not felt guilty. William probably feels somewhat guilty, too. That's why I think he didn't argue with her or try to assuage her guilt at the end and had some mixed feelings, too. I'm sure she/they won't continue to feel this way to the point of it harming their relationship indefinitely. She/they will work through it and move on together. They have declared their love for each other and that tearful hug said it all.
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Post by hannikan on Apr 17, 2013 8:50:28 GMT
Oh and I just realized I am now a God. What offerings will you present me mortals? LOL this board is officially polytheistic! Now the question is, who will follow Cosmic as God and who will follow me... I agree that the acting in this was excellent. Julia would really still have to grieve no matter what for at least a few months after Darcy's death. And she needs space to do that. I hope the guilt doesn't drag out throughout all of S7 though, only for a few eps at the beginning. I honestly wasn't upset by the ending and expect them to get married at some point in S7. I hope it's not at the very end, just because I am wondering if it will be the last season. I hope there's time to see William and Julia adopt a child and have a biological one, too. But even just adopting one would be enough for me. It wasn't uncommon for women to have children into their 40's in those day. It's more of an issue that she'd have to give up her career in order to raise children. She has had a fairly long time as a career woman though so perhaps she will be okay with that at this age, when she wouldn't have been at the beginning of the show. I did think the masks were a little much, too. Remember in Curse of Beaton Manor how they could not create one that was believable, esp with regard to the eyes? That would still have been true at this point. The phone call was probably a bit of a stretch, but more within the realm of possibility. The carriage part was also strange because with Gillies as the coach man taking the real Julia to Darcy's house she would have been there for the murder. Although I guess she was only supposed to have been there for a short time and then the machine was set up to fire after she left but it would look like it happened while she was there? In fact no one was home at the time but Darcy because the maid had been given the evening off. And Gillies had planted Julia's dress prior to all this to be found soon after the murder was reported. |
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Post by murdochic on Apr 17, 2013 12:26:40 GMT
Oh and I just realized I am now a God. What offerings will you present me mortals? LOL this board is officially polytheistic! Now the question is, who will follow Cosmic as God and who will follow me... I agree that the acting in this was excellent. Julia would really still have to grieve no matter what for at least a few months after Darcy's death. And she needs space to do that. I hope the guilt doesn't drag out throughout all of S7 though, only for a few eps at the beginning. I honestly wasn't upset by the ending and expect them to get married at some point in S7. I hope it's not at the very end, just because I am wondering if it will be the last season. I hope there's time to see William and Julia adopt a child and have a biological one, too. But even just adopting one would be enough for me. It wasn't uncommon for women to have children into their 40's in those day. It's more of an issue that she'd have to give up her career in order to raise children. She has had a fairly long time as a career woman though so perhaps she will be okay with that at this age, when she wouldn't have been at the beginning of the show. I did think the masks were a little much, too. Remember in Curse of Beaton Manor how they could not create one that was believable, esp with regard to the eyes? That would still have been true at this point. The phone call was probably a bit of a stretch, but more within the realm of possibility. The carriage part was also strange because with Gillies as the coach man taking the real Julia to Darcy's house she would have been there for the murder. Although I guess she was only supposed to have been there for a short time and then the machine was set up to fire after she left but it would look like it happened while she was there? In fact no one was home at the time but Darcy because the maid had been given the evening off. And Gillies had planted Julia's dress prior to all this to be found soon after the murder was reported. Julia doesn't need to give up her career to adopt a child. They can hire a nanny. I really can't see Julia becoming a full-time mother and wife, it's just not her. I expect with the guilt issue the first few episodes will be them taking it slowly. Then they'll get back on track and a proposal will follow. Then further on in S7 they'll get married. I wouldn't be surprised if they find a child to adopt by the end of S7 as well. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 17, 2013 14:00:11 GMT
I don't think they broke up either and I understand why it would have been strange for them to celebrate at that point in time, so I was hoping the show would time jump a month or two later to a point where it would have made more sense, just so we got more of a happy ending. I mean, it could be 9 months until it's on again so it would have been nice to have a little somethin' somethin' at the end. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 17, 2013 14:07:15 GMT
I think people just need to take a look at my name...  Also, George would be very angry if you didn't pick me. Almost as angry as calling him George. Unless you're his dead grandmother that is. Hmm, I like your thinking! But laying it out like that certainly makes it seem like the show is going to end this coming season. I have to admit that I was wondering if the increase in episodes was a sort of final hurrah and a means to complete the story properly. Or it could just be because it's the most popular it has ever been? I hope for the latter in this scenario. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 17, 2013 15:07:19 GMT
This is exactly why I never considered it to be a possibility!
It was worth a laugh at least, both for the ridiculousness and my memories of some terrible Tom Cruise movie where they were removing masks constantly.
The fingermark plant too. I don't know how feasible that was back then which is why I suggested the records were switched.
This hurt my brain. But I understand what you're confused about. I didn't really get this also. Let's see...
So Gillies takes Julia to Hamilton to meet Dolly and then takes them to Port Credit? So while they are in Port Credit, he comes back to Toronto, goes into the house, sets up the trap, without Darcy ever being aware, leaves, goes back to Port Credit to take Julia home. Then the same evening he goes back out to Port Credit to take Dolly back to the whore house and then kills her. He goes back to Toronto again and plants all the evidence before morning. Does that make sense?
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Post by marytodd on Apr 17, 2013 21:11:04 GMT
I love Murdoch Mysteries-We don't get it here in the U.S., but I've been able to follow season 6 using You Tube.
I do not understand why William and Julia love each other. William is a Roman Catholic. She seems to be at best agnostic. The writers have presented Julia as a strong, independent woman. She had sex with someone who she didn't want to marry, and wanting career over motherhood, aborted her baby so she could continue her medical career-and this was presented as if there were no alternatives. Her family had wealth--she could have done what some did back then--travel and have the baby abroad and given it up. She decided, without consuting William, that she knew what was best for her-including the move to Buffalo where she got engaged. The whole affair with Darcy made no sense--other than to put a roadbock to W/J relationship. This season she had no problem going "au natural". Really? William is a devout Catholic-and she challenges his beliefs--by her actions and words. He is conservative--I doubt that he would be comfortable with Julia have a full career once they had children--adopted or by some miracle-biological. She had no problem lying about William and her spending the night together--but couldn't lie to get an easy annulment. I don't think she is the right spouse for William. At some point her values and his would clash. Maybe the writers just don't have a strong faith system, so believe that William's Catholicism and Jujlia's disdain for it don't seem a problem. But these issues would tear apart a couple in the early 20th century--such conflict is going on now--contraception would also be an issue, and she is giving classes, illegally, on how to use birth control to prevent babies. The writers don't need artificial roadblocks for W/J---at some point William must come to the realization that his beliefs--and hers-just are too much in conflict for them to raise chldren together. I would love to see William in a relationship with a woman who isn't trying to prove herself to the world--and who wants to be a good wife and mother. Again-this is earlyy 20th century. (Why would Julia and William be kissing the evening that she and Darcy split in a very public place-this also seemed so out of character for William who is very aware of social norms.) I want WIlliam to have a happy marriage with someone who isn't full of "issues" and a good hundred years ahead of her time.
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Post by hannikan on Apr 17, 2013 21:43:14 GMT
LOL this board is officially polytheistic! Now the question is, who will follow Cosmic as God and who will follow me... I agree that the acting in this was excellent. Julia would really still have to grieve no matter what for at least a few months after Darcy's death. And she needs space to do that. I hope the guilt doesn't drag out throughout all of S7 though, only for a few eps at the beginning. I honestly wasn't upset by the ending and expect them to get married at some point in S7. I hope it's not at the very end, just because I am wondering if it will be the last season. I hope there's time to see William and Julia adopt a child and have a biological one, too. But even just adopting one would be enough for me. It wasn't uncommon for women to have children into their 40's in those day. It's more of an issue that she'd have to give up her career in order to raise children. She has had a fairly long time as a career woman though so perhaps she will be okay with that at this age, when she wouldn't have been at the beginning of the show. I did think the masks were a little much, too. Remember in Curse of Beaton Manor how they could not create one that was believable, esp with regard to the eyes? That would still have been true at this point. The phone call was probably a bit of a stretch, but more within the realm of possibility. The carriage part was also strange because with Gillies as the coach man taking the real Julia to Darcy's house she would have been there for the murder. Although I guess she was only supposed to have been there for a short time and then the machine was set up to fire after she left but it would look like it happened while she was there? In fact no one was home at the time but Darcy because the maid had been given the evening off. And Gillies had planted Julia's dress prior to all this to be found soon after the murder was reported. Julia doesn't need to give up her career to adopt a child. They can hire a nanny. I really can't see Julia becoming a full-time mother and wife, it's just not her. I expect with the guilt issue the first few episodes will be them taking it slowly. Then they'll get back on track and a proposal will follow. Then further on in S7 they'll get married. I wouldn't be surprised if they find a child to adopt by the end of S7 as well. Yeah, that's not the issue I'm referring to. Women were forced to give up their careers once they married and esp. once they had a child because their jobs would be given to men. It was not considered acceptable for a woman who was married to work and "keep a job away from a man" because she had a husband who was supposed to provide for her and her child(ren). If the couple was poor and could not support their family on just their husband's income, then it was okay but the woman was looked down on for having to work. In Julia and William's case her husband would be able to provide for her financially. When a woman was single it was considered acceptable (though not desirable) for her to work because she had no man to support her. Julia, of course, had a wealthy father to provide for her, so tongues already would have wagged that she was demeaning herself by working. But that would have been more accepted than her working once she was married and William could support her financially. The only way Julia wouldn't have to give up her position is if she now owns the asylum. If she bought it once Dr. Roberts effectively died, then she would have more power to keep her job. Otherwise, it's going to be a fight to keep her position, regardless of whether she has a nanny to care for her child. So even if they have her keep working after being married and having a child, they will need to show that it will be a struggle for her to do so. |
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I was happy to see Tess Moffat but I would have preferred we would have seen her trying to help the case with her investigations skills. And also when Murdoch made his decision I was pulling my hair screaming to Brackenreid and George to get going quickly. The scene with the rope at the prison was just incredibly sad and my stomach was in a knot until finally a happier resolution....but 
. I would say bittersweet is what I feel about this ending.
Also, George would be very angry if you didn't pick me. Almost as angry as calling him George. Unless you're his dead grandmother that is.