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Post by Hodge on Mar 29, 2015 23:28:30 GMT
The only scene W/J were in together in Election Day they didn't even speak to each other. In fact it was Brackenreid that had to tell the guy to unhand the ladies. Surely Murdoch should have been infuriated his wife was being manhandled. I have to admit I don't see a way around it unless Julia goes back to the morgue and I don't see that happening. But Hodge remember that scene in the morgue where she told him his logic was infuriating? The whole premise of their relationship is equality. She does not want him to fight her battles for her so I fully understand him not telling that guy to let unhand the ladies. It's not a matter of not fighting her battles for her. He should still have have been angry his wife was being manhandled. What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? |
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Post by lovemondays on Mar 29, 2015 23:37:11 GMT
But Hodge remember that scene in the morgue where she told him his logic was infuriating? The whole premise of their relationship is equality. She does not want him to fight her battles for her so I fully understand him not telling that guy to let unhand the ladies. It's not a matter of not fighting her battles for her. He should still have have been angry his wife was being manhandled. What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 29, 2015 23:42:32 GMT
It's not a matter of not fighting her battles for her. He should still have have been angry his wife was being manhandled. What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. William may talk of a modern marriage but deep down he's still a traditional man at heart. This is why despite not fighting Julia's battles it doesn't mean he should stand by and allow her to be mistreated. |
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Post by carco on Mar 29, 2015 23:42:39 GMT
But Hodge remember that scene in the morgue where she told him his logic was infuriating? The whole premise of their relationship is equality. She does not want him to fight her battles for her so I fully understand him not telling that guy to let unhand the ladies. What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? One that knows if he stepped in, HE would be the object of her anger when they got home??  Sorry, I'm being glib...I know what you'e saying but I think W & J have come to an unspoken agreement to butt out of one another's work or personal pursuits. Maybe they have a secret signal for when to jump in and help ?  |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 29, 2015 23:45:47 GMT
What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? One that knows if he stepped in, HE would be the object of her anger when they got home?? Sorry, I'm being glib...I know what you'e saying but I think W & J have come to an unspoken agreement to butt out of one another's work or personal pursuits. Maybe they have a secret signal for when to jump in and help ? Well if that's the way they're going to be portrayed in the future I don't see much going on for Jilliam fans. |
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Post by carco on Mar 29, 2015 23:51:09 GMT
I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. William may talk of a modern marriage but deep down he's still a traditional man at heart. This is why despite not fighting Julia's battles it doesn't mean he should stand by and allow her to be mistreated. That's the thing though. Julia wasn't being singled out for mistreatment. That's the way women/suffragettes were treated by men if they were foolish enough to attempt to be equal and go places were women were not allowed. If they did then they were treated like children and physically hauled away She knew that...all the women knew that. William knew it would likely happen. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 29, 2015 23:53:16 GMT
William may talk of a modern marriage but deep down he's still a traditional man at heart. This is why despite not fighting Julia's battles it doesn't mean he should stand by and allow her to be mistreated. That's the thing though. Julia wasn't being singled out for mistreatment. That's the way women/suffragettes were treated by men if they were foolish enough to attempt to be equal and go places were women were not allowed. If they did then they were treated like children and physically hauled away She knew that...all the women knew that. William knew it would likely happen. Yes but I still think he could have had a look cross his face. He was totally dispassionate about it. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 29, 2015 23:54:36 GMT
the tricky think about using Juila as a profiler (and we did a fair bit is season seven) was we got to a point where, when beating out a story, we came all stopped and went -- Murdoch has done a gazillion murder cases and talked to innumerable suspects -- why wouldn't he know that. we would write scenes where julia would fill in psychological stuff and then stop and say - Murdoch is a highly trained detective. having her come in occassionally (as we did in the girl gang episode) seemed a better way to go. but that seemed lost on some of the audience because they were not kissing ; ) It wasn't lost on me. It did seem like Julia was a third wheel when she came in to do profiling - and then William seemed over-enthusiastic about thanking her.  I appreciate it's not clear how you get Julia involved again now that she's out of the morgue. While I think this season was missing some acknowledgement of marital status, it was also missing some valid reason for Julia's participation on the show. Some here were even betting Julia would be a murder victim because of her lack of usefulness in William's world. That's why I've been lobbying for Julia to form a crime lab. Kiwi has been lobbying for Julia to take a stronger stance on psychiatric patient conditions now that The Incurables has opened that up - that's also a strong role for Julia if that can be better integrated into William's life than the suffragette stories were. Julia's role as profiler could be formalized somehow with more of a focus on her playing counterpoint to William (as she often did in early seasons) rather than him being so grateful to her all the time. As I mentioned in another thread, though, I'd rather see Julia impressing William with hard science skills he doesn't have and thus demonstrating the case for respecting women in the workplace. It seems to me your only other choice is to make Julia a walk-on role like Margaret Brackenreid's, instead of making in William's show over here and Julia's show over there. Also, I think it's unfair to represent fans - at least the ones on this forum - as being purely focused on the kissing. There some outright non-shippers here, and I'm pretty sure the consensus of this forum was the major problem of this season was the separation of William and Julia's plots, combined with the various secondary sub-plots, watered down the mysteries and other traditional Murdochian "beats" like the gadgets. It seems like you still want to blame shallow fans rather than confront the idea that reasonable people were giving MM a lot of latitude and still got to the point of saying "this season just doesn't seem that good..."  |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:00:51 GMT
Because they punted on the priest talk before the marriage. The priest asked questions, but we never heard Julia's answers. It's probably suffice to say that Julia and the priest came to a meeting of the minds when they discussed her answer and he was satisfied enough that she had given it much thought and on that basis, approved the wedding to take place in William's church. Well we both know that means she agreed to raise children Catholic, which probably couldn't have been out loud to viewers who would have expected an argument over that. I feel the situation was set up wrong. They made it look like Julia was really uncomfortable with William's faith - probably even thought of it as harmful. And then suddenly she was okay with it, and the priest let her wed in the church. I agree there was no room in the ep for theological argument - I'm just saying there was a set up to expect one. And when we didn't get one, it made it look like it was because the writers ducked it. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 0:01:57 GMT
the tricky think about using Juila as a profiler (and we did a fair bit is season seven) was we got to a point where, when beating out a story, we came all stopped and went -- Murdoch has done a gazillion murder cases and talked to innumerable suspects -- why wouldn't he know that. we would write scenes where julia would fill in psychological stuff and then stop and say - Murdoch is a highly trained detective. having her come in occassionally (as we did in the girl gang episode) seemed a better way to go. but that seemed lost on some of the audience because they were not kissing ; ) Also, I think it's unfair to represent fans - at least the ones on this forum - as being purely focused on the kissing. There some outright non-shippers here, and I'm pretty sure the consensus of this forum was the major problem of this season was the separation of William and Julia's plots, combined with the various secondary sub-plots, watered down the mysteries and other traditional Murdochian "beats" like the gadgets. It seems like you still want to blame shallow fans rather than confront the idea that reasonable people were giving MM a lot of latitude and still got to the point of saying "this season just doesn't seem that good..." To be fair snacky Peter did say some of the fans. Let's face it some fans would never be satisfied if we had W/J kissing all the time. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 0:05:08 GMT
It's probably suffice to say that Julia and the priest came to a meeting of the minds when they discussed her answer and he was satisfied enough that she had given it much thought and on that basis, approved the wedding to take place in William's church. I feel the situation was set up wrong. They made it look like Julia was really uncomfortable with William's faith - probably even thought of it as harmful. And then suddenly she was okay with it, and the priest let her wed in the church. I don't think she was uncomfortable with the faith itself rather the iconography in the church. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:09:27 GMT
I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. William may talk of a modern marriage but deep down he's still a traditional man at heart. This is why despite not fighting Julia's battles it doesn't mean he should stand by and allow her to be mistreated. Other men may start questioning William on that point as well... |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:10:51 GMT
Maybe they have a secret signal for when to jump in and help ? That's the sort of stuff the writers need to let us in on! So much more romantic than "the kissing". |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:13:01 GMT
To be fair snacky Peter did say some of the fans. Let's face it some fans would never be satisfied if we had W/J kissing all the time. lol, okay that's true. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:19:18 GMT
I feel the situation was set up wrong. They made it look like Julia was really uncomfortable with William's faith - probably even thought of it as harmful. And then suddenly she was okay with it, and the priest let her wed in the church. I don't think she was uncomfortable with the faith itself rather the iconography in the church. She also had some ideas about William's faith from William himself - like when he almost took a step back from her just because she was going to be a divorcee. (And that was a consequence of her refusing to lie on the stand - so I've always taken that as epic hypocrisy on William's part). Some of their early debates - abortion and homosexuality - also related to William's faith. So I can imagine Julia had some thoughts to bring about God the Father from her area of psychiatric expertise. I wonder if Julia is reading Nietzsche yet.... |
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Sorry, I'm being glib...I know what you'e saying but I think W & J have come to an unspoken agreement to butt out of one another's work or personal pursuits. Maybe they have a secret signal for when to jump in and help ? 
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT