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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 0:25:42 GMT
I don't think she was uncomfortable with the faith itself rather the iconography in the church. She also had some ideas about William's faith from William himself - like when he almost took a step back from her just because she was going to be a divorcee. (And that was a consequence of her refusing to lie on the stand - so I've always taken that as epic hypocrisy on William's part). Some of their early debates - abortion and homosexuality - also related to William's faith. So I can imagine Julia had some thoughts to bring about God the Father from her area of psychiatric expertise. I wonder if Julia is reading Nietzsche yet....  Julia's a fictional character snacky. I doubt she's reading anything!!  |
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Post by lizmc on Mar 30, 2015 0:37:12 GMT
She also had some ideas about William's faith from William himself - like when he almost took a step back from her just because she was going to be a divorcee. (And that was a consequence of her refusing to lie on the stand - so I've always taken that as epic hypocrisy on William's part). Some of their early debates - abortion and homosexuality - also related to William's faith. So I can imagine Julia had some thoughts to bring about God the Father from her area of psychiatric expertise. I wonder if Julia is reading Nietzsche yet.... Julia's a fictional character snacky. I doubt she's reading anything!! Or she's waiting for the paperback. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 0:54:52 GMT
She also had some ideas about William's faith from William himself - like when he almost took a step back from her just because she was going to be a divorcee. (And that was a consequence of her refusing to lie on the stand - so I've always taken that as epic hypocrisy on William's part). Some of their early debates - abortion and homosexuality - also related to William's faith. So I can imagine Julia had some thoughts to bring about God the Father from her area of psychiatric expertise. I wonder if Julia is reading Nietzsche yet.... Julia's a fictional character snacky. I doubt she's reading anything!! They can always show what she's reading as an aspect of character development. We know she's read Dracula!  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Mar 30, 2015 2:45:10 GMT
That's the thing though. Julia wasn't being singled out for mistreatment. That's the way women/suffragettes were treated by men if they were foolish enough to attempt to be equal and go places were women were not allowed. If they did then they were treated like children and physically hauled away She knew that...all the women knew that. William knew it would likely happen. Yes but I still think he could have had a look cross his face. He was totally dispassionate about it. But he has come to her rescue (of sorts). In OTWF 2, he swooped in and took care of Leslie Garland. Could she have handled it? No doubt. But she appreciated how William was looking out for her and stepped in. In Victor/Victorian she does want him to support her-perhaps a little more visibly. He tells her she has his support, but he won't come to her rescue because she doesn't need it. That may be, but she does want a more tangible showing IMO. Much like me, I believe. I can take care of and handle lots of things, but I love when my husband steps in and supports me physically or verbally. Or as was the instance one time, stop me from attacking another person who stepped waaaaayyyyy over the line with me. Saving me from jail is also appreciated.  |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 3:59:32 GMT
Yes but I still think he could have had a look cross his face. He was totally dispassionate about it. But he has come to her rescue (of sorts). In OTWF 2, he swooped in and took care of Leslie Garland. Could she have handled it? No doubt. But she appreciated how William was looking out for her and stepped in. In Victor/Victorian she does want him to support her-perhaps a little more visibly. He tells her she has his support, but he won't come to her rescue because she doesn't need it. That may be, but she does want a more tangible showing IMO. Much like me, I believe. I can take care of and handle lots of things, but I love when my husband steps in and supports me physically or verbally. Or as was the instance one time, stop me from attacking another person who stepped waaaaayyyyy over the line with me. Saving me from jail is also appreciated. Perhaps OTWF2 was different because they were in private - it wasn't a case of Julia having to look strong in front of anyone else. I have to say I was a bit bothered by the scene in Murdoch Takes Manhattan, and another scene (maybe it was OTWF 2), where Julia was basically there to be really impressed by William's heroics. I kind of gave it a pass, though, because I think while she was in the morgue she never saw William being a super hero, and he doesn't exactly give the impression of being that type. As mentioned earlier, in the first few seasons William even invited the Inspector to do the bullying for him. We only saw William get physical during his "out of William experience" in The Murdoch Identity. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 4:01:02 GMT
Much like me, I believe. I can take care of and handle lots of things, but I love when my husband steps in and supports me physically or verbally. Or as was the instance one time, stop me from attacking another person who stepped waaaaayyyyy over the line with me. Saving me from jail is also appreciated. You seem to have a lot less to prove than Julia, though!  |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 13:19:14 GMT
Yes but I still think he could have had a look cross his face. He was totally dispassionate about it. But he has come to her rescue (of sorts). In OTWF 2, he swooped in and took care of Leslie Garland. Could she have handled it? No doubt. But she appreciated how William was looking out for her and stepped in. In Victor/Victorian she does want him to support her-perhaps a little more visibly. He tells her she has his support, but he won't come to her rescue because she doesn't need it. That may be, but she does want a more tangible showing IMO. Much like me, I believe. I can take care of and handle lots of things, but I love when my husband steps in and supports me physically or verbally. Or as was the instance one time, stop me from attacking another person who stepped waaaaayyyyy over the line with me. Saving me from jail is also appreciated. You have a point there Fallenbelle. Victor/Victorian has been put forward as an example of Julia not wanting to be rescued by William but it's William himself that feels she doesn't need rescuing. She obviously did want support which is very different from rescuing. She was looking for support at the SH and asked why he didn't when they were in the morgue. She didn't let him off the hook. Whilst she accepted his explanation it doesn't mean she's fine with it. She obviously wants 'her man' to stand up for her at times. Election Day was one of those times he should have at least looked concerned if not actually said something and the fact it was the inspector that had to say something was wrong. The inspector is an old fashioned gentleman and he knew when to speak up. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 18:18:24 GMT
You have a point there Fallenbelle. Victor/Victorian has been put forward as an example of Julia not wanting to be rescued by William but it's William himself that feels she doesn't need rescuing. She obviously did want support which is very different from rescuing. She was looking for support at the SH and asked why he didn't when they were in the morgue. She didn't let him off the hook. Whilst she accepted his explanation it doesn't mean she's fine with it. She obviously wants 'her man' to stand up for her at times. Election Day was one of those times he should have at least looked concerned if not actually said something and the fact it was the inspector that had to say something was wrong. The inspector is an old fashioned gentleman and he knew when to speak up. Also, one of William's notable character flaws is stubbornness. So he could have taken umbrage at a point where Julia didn't want interference (Perhaps when he had the fight/argument with Julia when she went to jail in On the Waterfront) - and then taken Julia's advice to "back off" to unnecessary extremes. Then he probably moped around and waited for an apology that never happened a la Tattered and Torn or after Julia turned down his proposal. Yup, probably trying to wait it out for Julia to ask for his help... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 18:36:44 GMT
It's not a matter of not fighting her battles for her. He should still have have been angry his wife was being manhandled. What kind of husband will stand by and let his wife be treated in that way? I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. I see a difference here between when she is being attacked verbally, as with Brackenreid, and being physically threatened, as in the election episode. William is right in saying she can certainly defend herself verbally, but IMO he should step in when she is being physically threatened! |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 18:38:36 GMT
I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. I see a difference here between when she is being attacked verbally, as with Brackenreid, and being physically threatened, as in the election episode. William is right in saying she can certainly defend herself verbally, but IMO he should step in when she is being physically threatened!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:08:12 GMT
I see a difference here between when she is being attacked verbally, as with Brackenreid, and being physically threatened, as in the election episode. William is right in saying she can certainly defend herself verbally, but IMO he should step in when she is being physically threatened!
Thank you! (Takes a small bow) Took me long enough! |
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Post by lizmc on Mar 30, 2015 19:28:49 GMT
CONGRATULATIONS NEW DIVINITY!!!!
Thank you! (Takes a small bow) Took me long enough! Congratulations......another excuse to celebrate tonight..... |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 21:14:48 GMT
You have a point there Fallenbelle. Victor/Victorian has been put forward as an example of Julia not wanting to be rescued by William but it's William himself that feels she doesn't need rescuing. She obviously did want support which is very different from rescuing. She was looking for support at the SH and asked why he didn't when they were in the morgue. She didn't let him off the hook. Whilst she accepted his explanation it doesn't mean she's fine with it. She obviously wants 'her man' to stand up for her at times. Election Day was one of those times he should have at least looked concerned if not actually said something and the fact it was the inspector that had to say something was wrong. The inspector is an old fashioned gentleman and he knew when to speak up. Also, one of William's notable character flaws is stubbornness. So he could have taken umbrage at a point where Julia didn't want interference (Perhaps when he had the fight/argument with Julia when she went to jail in On the Waterfront) - and then taken Julia's advice to "back off" to unnecessary extremes. Then he probably moped around and waited for an apology that never happened a la Tattered and Torn or after Julia turned down his proposal. Yup, probably trying to wait it out for Julia to ask for his help... But as we haven't seen any evidence of this I don't think we can assume that. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 30, 2015 21:50:18 GMT
Also, one of William's notable character flaws is stubbornness. So he could have taken umbrage at a point where Julia didn't want interference (Perhaps when he had the fight/argument with Julia when she went to jail in On the Waterfront) - and then taken Julia's advice to "back off" to unnecessary extremes. Then he probably moped around and waited for an apology that never happened a la Tattered and Torn or after Julia turned down his proposal. Yup, probably trying to wait it out for Julia to ask for his help... But as we haven't seen any evidence of this I don't think we can assume that. Well we can extrapolate on William's past behavior, and he was frustrated after speaking to Julia in jail. We have seen evidence of William NOT going to Julia's rescue. So one explanation could be that he's being stubborn over "not rescuing" her because of the argument they had at the jail. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 30, 2015 22:06:25 GMT
I think we're getting into the heart of why the marriage arc feels off to us. Carco is right. William said "I will not rescue you, Julia", but that does not preclude him from having protective feeling about the way people treat his wife. This is why I want to see some exploration of what this modern marriage really is as defined by William and Julia themselves. I see a difference here between when she is being attacked verbally, as with Brackenreid, and being physically threatened, as in the election episode. William is right in saying she can certainly defend herself verbally, but IMO he should step in when she is being physically threatened! I don't know how I missed this earlier. This is exactly what I mean. Just because William said he won't rescue her doesn't mean it would be in every situation. If that was the case Julia would have been hung by now. |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT