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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 4:48:21 GMT
I must say NO to the mustache though.  Still have nightmares about that 'thing'. I get it's supposed to make him look older but just no. Yeah, almost certainly I've become a bit jaded by now. And I suppose I never completely forgave them for the ending to S4. I mean, we're only NOW over the consequences of that decision! Plus I'm a firm believer in shows going out on a high note rather than dragged on forever...*cough* Supernatural *cough* Basically I tend to think that if the story can't be told fully within about 100 episodes, it's not being told properly. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 4:59:20 GMT
I quite like the idea of Sam Carr, Jimmy and even Tess returning as Pinkertons or being hired by the constabulary under Williams guidance. It is intriguing to think about the possibility that Julias progressive causes may jeopardize William taking over as inspector, or at the very least, cause him some grief. I got thinking about Carolines belief that Lionel wanted Julia to be the one to end his life. Would she have done it, knowing she would have to hide the truth from William forever. William has clearly matured and softened his rigid beliefs. He got past Julias abortion but could he forgive or ignore her active participation in euthenasia. Tesssssssssssssss....I still think she's the one for George. But that leaves Emily without a date. Hmmm... Watched some eps of Nothing Too Good For a Cowboy, which made me feel better about shows where the main couple is married. Apparently there needs to be some third party making trouble, though... It hadn't occurred to me that Julia would have to keep assisting with euthanasia a secret for William. I believe you're right about that, though. It makes me curious about what William's moral limit would be. I doubt he could see Julia as a murderer, but he might be convinced that she's going to hell, and let Julia know that in little ways. That also puts another light on the suffragette hunger strikes: if those are suicide, that would put her soul at risk for eternal damnation, too. William's career opportunities are so precarious that I don't think there's any way that Julia's "scandalous" activities won't hurt him. However, I think that arc would look something like Brackenreid's thrwarted political career: perhaps William decides he's not going to be the one to break through the Catholic glass ceiling. He will just have to make his own success, outside the hierarchies and gatekeepers of an "official" career. Maybe Edison will hire him as a consultant~ I liked Tess but she's basically the female version of George and if they ever got together, the universe would surely implode from their combined goofiness. NTGFAC was pretty fun but Sarah Chalke had a habit of getting on my nerves. I think it was just her character though since I liked her in Scrubs. But yeah, Pan was definitely necessary...he was the best part! (besides the MANY shirtless and/or sweaty Yannick scenes of course).  It doesn't matter what she does in the future. She can always just respond with, "And you let a murderess go free." xD |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 5:10:33 GMT
The push and pull of Julias progressive activities vs the political constraints of Williams career advancement would unfortunately read much like the Garland marriage. The writers could play it for an episode or two until Brackenreid is back on his feet. Regardless, one of the things I like best about MM is the way sensitive issues are raised and resolved between Wm and Julia. Their relationship embodies the differences of class, upbringing and religion. These were all issues that permeated all of (Canadian) society at the time. My vote is that the marriage will not happen until Brackenreid is well enough to walk Julia down the aisle. Her father is dead so he would be her first choice. I am rooting for the 100th episode! The difference I think is that Murdoch would be willing to put her ahead of himself and not make her back down from her moral beliefs. Besides which, I think Brackenreid was right and he would hate being an inspector because of the political hoopla. So when Murdoch takes over temporarily, he will find this out first hand and decide it's not something he wants to do full time. My problem with having Brax out of commission at the end of the season is that they always time jump 3-5 months in between seasons. They HAVE to since they film only in the warmer months. It can't be fall at the end of the season and then suddenly spring the next day! So how on earth are they actually going to show the after math of Brax's beating? Indoor flashbacks? Word of mouth only? I can't figure out how this is supposed to work. They've never done something like this before. I sure hope they thought that through... But anyway, by the 100th episode it would be at least 4 months after the engagement. Does that classify as very soon? |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 5:37:22 GMT
I liked Tess but she's basically the female version of George and if they ever got together, the universe would surely implode from their combined goofiness. It doesn't matter what she does in the future. She can always just respond with, "And you let a murderess go free." xD Hmm, I guess the combined goofiness would change the whole humor balance of the show. (spoken in best Murdoch-skeptic voice): I'm not sure the universe would actually implode... I can't see George with Emily or Ruby, though. Tess was the only one that seemed his type. I guess he's doomed to loneliness.  Julia is packing some come-back ammunition at this point, but I don't think it would get her off the hook for interfering with God's will on the natural course of life. William would have to go through some serious thought convolutions to come to terms with that one. In the end I do think he'd "choose Julia", though! |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 5:46:54 GMT
So how on earth are they actually going to show the after math of Brax's beating? Indoor flashbacks? Word of mouth only? I can't figure out how this is supposed to work. They've never done something like this before. I sure hope they thought that through... But anyway, by the 100th episode it would be at least 4 months after the engagement. Does that classify as very soon? I don't think they will show the immediate aftermath at all, because that would probably be too much suffering for the light tone of MM. I think it will be more like when William got shot by the arrow: he probably spent some time in the hospital with bed side vigils from friends, tears from Julia, and a long struggle to recover. But all we saw is him showing up in the park with a cane. So I predict Brackenreid will be out of the hospital, and probably in a wheel chair for the time being. The season really will start months after the attack, with Station House 4's response (and possibly William's term as an Acting Inspector) in media res. I'm also thinking William's sudden responsibilities may have put the "very soon" wedding on hold. While having the wedding for episode 100 is a numerologically satisfying, and it seems likely MM will celebrate their 100th episode by doing that, I still hope that wedding plans and obstacles stretch out an entire season, just to contribute to MM lasting longer as a series.  |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 5:49:15 GMT
The push and pull of Julias progressive activities vs the political constraints of Williams career advancement would unfortunately read much like the Garland marriage. I think it would be juxtaposed to the Garland marriage: it would play out positively, and William would come out looking like a better husband than Darcy. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 6:13:41 GMT
I suppose I never completely forgave them for the ending to S4. I mean, we're only NOW over the consequences of that decision! Plus I'm a firm believer in shows going out on a high note rather than dragged on forever...*cough* Supernatural *cough* Basically I tend to think that if the story can't be told fully within about 100 episodes, it's not being told properly. I can only imagine how upset fans were at that time, when the continuation of the series was in question and Helene Joy's commitment to the role was uncertain. It certainly would have been a massive stab in the back of fans if MM had ended at that point. It was a risky decision by the writers. While I was checking out this forum I came across some outraged posts by people who declared the show ruined and swore they would never watch again. I was lucky that I started watching after Season 6. I never suffered The Trauma. Since I could immediately follow the story through the Marriage Collapse and Divorce arc, Season 4 just seems like the usual "consummation delay" to me, and I appreciate the little ways the "ship" was maintained despite Julia's engagement (the proposal that William take Julia as a mistress, the Bloodlust fantasy, the emotional commentary conducted via interrogations). Julia's discovery of the proposal and William's sacrifice to free Ava seemed all the more tragic when Julia actually got married to another man. Who saw that coming? What a pretext for William-angst! Since I had the benefit of hindsight (I actually saw 20th Century Murdoch before most of S4), I embraced the tragedy as something that took MM a cut above most "quirky" shows in quality television. While I agree with a show going out on a high note, or at least maintaining a level of quality through its final episode, I don't think 100 is the natural set. Since it usually takes 100 for a show to be syndicated, and syndication is what usually supports obsession, 100 is just getting started. 200 seems a better natural set to me: 100 (around 4 seasons in American terms) to build an audience, and 100 for the imperial reign of success. Star Trek: The Next Generation, which is a comparable "family" show that went out while it was still successful last 178 episodes (7 seasons, but American seasons are twice as long), and then the cast continued to make movies. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 16:13:52 GMT
Hmm, I guess the combined goofiness would change the whole humor balance of the show. (spoken in best Murdoch-skeptic voice): I'm not sure the universe would actually implode... I can't see George with Emily or Ruby, though. Tess was the only one that seemed his type. I guess he's doomed to loneliness. Julia is packing some come-back ammunition at this point, but I don't think it would get her off the hook for interfering with God's will on the natural course of life. William would have to go through some serious thought convolutions to come to terms with that one. In the end I do think he'd "choose Julia", though! Yes, yes it would! He'll date his 'cousin' Penny (Yannick's daughter) after her engagement to that guy fails. He HAS to choose Julia, he has no choice at this point. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 16:29:08 GMT
I don't think they will show the immediate aftermath at all, because that would probably be too much suffering for the light tone of MM. I think it will be more like when William got shot by the arrow: he probably spent some time in the hospital with bed side vigils from friends, tears from Julia, and a long struggle to recover. But all we saw is him showing up in the park with a cane. So I predict Brackenreid will be out of the hospital, and probably in a wheel chair for the time being. The season really will start months after the attack, with Station House 4's response (and possibly William's term as an Acting Inspector) in media res. I'm also thinking William's sudden responsibilities may have put the "very soon" wedding on hold. While having the wedding for episode 100 is a numerologically satisfying, and it seems likely MM will celebrate their 100th episode by doing that, I still hope that wedding plans and obstacles stretch out an entire season, just to contribute to MM lasting longer as a series. Well there was an article that said the show would be 10% darker this coming season but you're probably right and they'll just skip over all of that. And yeah, he has to still be injured in some way or Murdoch wouldn't take over, Brax wouldn't consider leaving the constabulary further, and the whole beating will come across as pointless and only for shock value. And I don't like that idea. Well Will's definition of very soon is probably different than ours but yeah the engagement will probably stretch out due to more Leslie interference or Julia getting into trouble with the law and causing tension there. Because based on the show runner Peter Mitchell's attitude on the whole thing, they won't be getting married anytime soon. :/ This is what he said about their engagement, "In taking the temperature of the fans over the last couple of years, there was no way to artificially delay it anymore without coming up with something completely ridiculous." So apparently the whole Leslie plot which was sooo obvious was not a way to artificially delay anything until the end of the season and Gillies escaping for the third time due to incompetent constables was not ridiculous. Yeah okay. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 16:42:01 GMT
I can only imagine how upset fans were at that time, when the continuation of the series was in question and Helene Joy's commitment to the role was uncertain. It certainly would have been a massive stab in the back of fans if MM had ended at that point. It was a risky decision by the writers. While I was checking out this forum I came across some outraged posts by people who declared the show ruined and swore they would never watch again. I was lucky that I started watching after Season 6. I never suffered The Trauma. Since I could immediately follow the story through the Marriage Collapse and Divorce arc, Season 4 just seems like the usual "consummation delay" to me, and I appreciate the little ways the "ship" was maintained despite Julia's engagement (the proposal that William take Julia as a mistress, the Bloodlust fantasy, the emotional commentary conducted via interrogations). Julia's discovery of the proposal and William's sacrifice to free Ava seemed all the more tragic when Julia actually got married to another man. Who saw that coming? What a pretext for William-angst! Since I had the benefit of hindsight (I actually saw 20th Century Murdoch before most of S4), I embraced the tragedy as something that took MM a cut above most "quirky" shows in quality television. While I agree with a show going out on a high note, or at least maintaining a level of quality through its final episode, I don't think 100 is the natural set. Since it usually takes 100 for a show to be syndicated, and syndication is what usually supports obsession, 100 is just getting started. 200 seems a better natural set to me: 100 (around 4 seasons in American terms) to build an audience, and 100 for the imperial reign of success. Star Trek: The Next Generation, which is a comparable "family" show that went out while it was still successful last 178 episodes (7 seasons, but American seasons are twice as long), and then the cast continued to make movies. Probably one of the only times I was truly shocked at an ending! Because as Ruby said, "Marriage is for life." Nowadays someone gets married in a show to the wrong person you go, big deal, they can just get divorced. But back then it was pretty unheard of unless the husband was being particularly violent towards his wife. And since Darcy didn't seem the type to beat Julia senseless, I couldn't see how she was going to get out of this short of him dying. Which is what happened in the end. But I hoped he would pick up a contagious disease from one of his patients instead of a serial killer randomly coming into the picture to 'save the day.' The funny thing is, the alternate ending to S4 was actually WORSE than the one they aired. Basically her letter told him that she was happy with her decision and that she didn't want him to get involved. If they had gone down that road, I guess they would have written her character out. And really I was half convinced that they had even with the ending they did air. :/ Okay let's split the difference. A good show should end at 150 eps. Yeah and those TNG actors are now forever typecast and have to go to conventions all the time like in Galaxy Quest. xD |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 19:45:07 GMT
I've been watching Brisco County Jr., which was apparently criticized for violence even though it was closer to an outright comedy than MM. This had me considering what the difference is between on the violence of "tough realistic" shows and what would be considered okay for a more "family-oriented" show. Part of the conclusion I drew was it really makes a difference if the characters are speaking "foul language" at the time: taking the scene from the realm of courteous theater of manners to the realm of people defying/ignoring social theater (though they may be observing the rules of an alternate society/politics). You're right about the "shock value" though. It's just hard for me to define what's shocking, because for the last decade American TV has been determined to break every taboo of sex and violence. But then British TV usually broke these taboos before Americans did without being rendered trash. I thought it might have something to do with the shock being dehumanizing rather than dis-inhibiting. But perhaps it's as simple as you say: whether the events are building blocks of a story - especially a story that works with larger character arcs - or whether the events "are" the story (like a click-bait headline). If anyone here ever watched "Little House on the Prairie" - which is about as "family-oriented" (and Christian-oriented), as you can get- something very strange happened in the last season or so. Suddenly every episode was about a horrible event: a crippling accident, a drug addiction, a suicide, a rape. I think the attempt was to make the show 80% darker for "click-bait" while it was still "family-oriented" since the violence wasn't graphic, and every story was about praying for recovery from the situation. I found these episodes incredibly repetitive and boring. Now I realize why: praying for recovery isn't a story (well, maybe it's ONE story, but not a whole season worth of episodes). Little House on the Prairie had descended into prurience even without graphic sex and violence. This year MM has shown quite a bit of gore, but none of it has struck me as inconsistent with the style and purpose of the episodes. As long as MM puts the mysteries, and the character reflection enabled by the mysteries, first, I think it will continue to be a great show. **** Regarding the show runner comments: I do think it's in character for William to lose track of how much time has gone by, especially when he has a lot on his plate. He probably wouldn't have lost Julia in the first place if he'd gotten on the first train to Buffalo. I'm surprised he didn't lose her again when he let months go by after she was almost hanged! Once he starts thinking about something, apparently a year becomes a lost weekend. While the Leslie plot seemed a bit artificial - I think it's because there weren't enough alternative theories to consider: both possibilities were demeaning to the fans (Leslie because he was obvious, and Gillies because he had escaped too many times already). It's possible to come up with convincing relationship delays: it's just dang hard. There are so many cliches to fall into. It's clear the writers themselves feel like they've run out of ideas, though, so it's a good thing they are moving the ship forward instead of just throwing out delay tactics which they themselves think are bad. I'm excited to see what they do with the wedding! And the honeymoon! |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 20:01:27 GMT
I couldn't see how she was going to get out of this short of him dying. Which is what happened in the end. But I hoped he would pick up a contagious disease from one of his patients instead of a serial killer randomly coming into the picture to 'save the day.' The funny thing is, the alternate ending to S4 was actually WORSE than the one they aired. Basically her letter told him that she was happy with her decision and that she didn't want him to get involved. If they had gone down that road, I guess they would have written her character out. And really I was half convinced that they had even with the ending they did air. :/ Okay let's split the difference. A good show should end at 150 eps. Yeah and those TNG actors are now forever typecast and have to go to conventions all the time like in Galaxy Quest. xD At least since MM was largely about murder mysteries, you had strong hope for Darcy's death. That alternative ending sounds terrible!!! I've never heard of that. If it's on the DVDs, I bought them for my Mom, and I don't have a copy myself. I can see how such an ending would make you tear your hair out and consider calling for a bloody revolution to overthrow Shaftsbury Productions. What a failure to "make things whole" for the fans. D: In light of how badly they could have botched it, it's great that whoever is in charge decided to make that arc about William's choice instead. I suppose I should feel sorry for the TNG actors, but I hope they are also proud of their legacy. I like how Wil Wheaton capitalized on that legacy instead of just wallowing in self-parody. He's now an arbiter of the ultra-geeky. I keep hoping he will watch MM and tweet about it, and make it the most celebrated TV event since Sharknado. By the way, Levar Burton was the US version of Napkin Man on "Reading Rainbow". Fascinating parallel there. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 12, 2014 20:09:29 GMT
Okay let's split the difference. A good show should end at 150 eps. The X-Files proved you could do a successful Hollywood movie while the show was still running (proving the TNG cancellation theory wrong). Years later there was another X-Files movie that should have been released direct-to-video because it had the quality of a TV episode: that pretty much flopped. Even though there were a lot of X-Files fans, by that time the show had been over for so long that they had transferred their allegiance and imagination to other shows. There could be MM movies, but I think they'd have to play up elements worthy of a big screen. *chuckles at the thought of the blockbuster car chase with bicycles* |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 21:49:37 GMT
At least since MM was largely about murder mysteries, you had strong hope for Darcy's death. That alternative ending sounds terrible!!! I've never heard of that. If it's on the DVDs, I bought them for my Mom, and I don't have a copy myself. I can see how such an ending would make you tear your hair out and consider calling for a bloody revolution to overthrow Shaftsbury Productions. What a failure to "make things whole" for the fans. D: In light of how badly they could have botched it, it's great that whoever is in charge decided to make that arc about William's choice instead. I suppose I should feel sorry for the TNG actors, but I hope they are also proud of their legacy. I like how Wil Wheaton capitalized on that legacy instead of just wallowing in self-parody. He's now an arbiter of the ultra-geeky. I keep hoping he will watch MM and tweet about it, and make it the most celebrated TV event since Sharknado. By the way, Levar Burton was the US version of Napkin Man on "Reading Rainbow". Fascinating parallel there. I'm sure a lot of people did. Yeah apparently it's on there in the extras. I'm too cheap to buy them myself. It's like 60, 70 bucks a season here! Maybe if there had been bloopers/extras for S1-5 I would have more seriously considered it. Have you seen/do you know about the alternate ending to S3? If you haven't I highly suggest checking it out on YT. Still haven't seen that gem. Sharknado I mean. But I heard all about it. I should make it known that I'm not a huge TNG fan and don't know many of the actors names. I mean I like it but sometimes the philosophical bits drag on for too long and I fall asleep. Plus the aliens seriously freaked me out as a kid. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 12, 2014 21:54:56 GMT
Okay let's split the difference. A good show should end at 150 eps. The X-Files proved you could do a successful Hollywood movie while the show was still running (proving the TNG cancellation theory wrong). Years later there was another X-Files movie that should have been released direct-to-video because it had the quality of a TV episode: that pretty much flopped. Even though there were a lot of X-Files fans, by that time the show had been over for so long that they had transferred their allegiance and imagination to other shows. There could be MM movies, but I think they'd have to play up elements worthy of a big screen. *chuckles at the thought of the blockbuster car chase with bicycles* There are MM tv movies...but they're based on the books which are completely different to the show. I.e. dark and realistic. Reminds me of Murdoch running after Pendrick in his electric car! xD |
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