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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 2, 2014 5:28:12 GMT
I know that Jilliam is the reigning shipping movement on the board, but what are your thoughts on William with the other women who have entered his life?
The thought came to me after watching "Evil Eye of Egypt." Iris seemed like an unlikely pairing, but they got along so well and seemed to share a lot in common. Then there was Elizabeth from the Klondike. She wasn't really a pairing, but she did kind of have a come-on for William. The thing that struck me the most about Iris was how enthralled William seemed by her...and just after Julia had left!
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Post by snacky on Jun 2, 2014 5:45:02 GMT
I know that Jilliam is the reigning shipping movement on the board, but what are your thoughts on William with the other women who have entered his life? The thought came to me after watching "Evil Eye of Egypt." Iris seemed like an unlikely pairing, but they got along so well and seemed to share a lot in common. Then there was Elizabeth from the Klondike. She wasn't really a pairing, but she did kind of have a come-on for William. The thing that struck me the most about Iris was how enthralled William seemed by her...and just after Julia had left! Murdoch Mysteries has thrown a harem of women at William - Ms. Pensell, Etty (owner of the Music Academy), Anna, Sally Pendrick. Of course, Enid Jones was a direct rival. Some of the women I'd say are more objectively beautiful than Julia. Some are just as intelligent. Some are avant-garde, some are adventurous, most just as acceptable as Julia...but in the end the official "ship" locked on William/Julia. Why? The only answer I can come up with is, from the shipper point of view, Julia's personality is the most compatible with William's. The other women are prizes, but we know why Julia wants William (beyond just wanting his body, lol). William and Julia have genuinely compatible scientific-intellectual interests being applied to solving mysteries, and they both exhibit a similar sort of nervous repression that demarcates their generation from Georges and Emily's. They seem to have chemistry and fit well together. You don't have to be the prettiest or most popular girl in the room to be the right one. Just as you don't have to be the tallest and strongest guy to be the right one. Some couples just click.  |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 2, 2014 16:02:19 GMT
I agree that Julia and William seem to "click" really well, but I think that the show has presented some acceptable alternatives that they could have chosen to pursue. Anna and Iris stand out (at least in my mind) of women whose personalities really seemed to mesh with William's. I find it interesting that the writers provided us with so many options when clearly they wanted to pursue Julia. Of course, it adds to the drama for the Jilliam shippers, I suppose  As an aside, this is nothing against Julia...just an observation that came to me while watching Season 5. Another aside: That video was kinda funny! So many of those situations were taken out of context! Like William holding hands with his sister, lol. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 2, 2014 16:49:18 GMT
he writers provided us with so many options when clearly they wanted to pursue Julia. Of course, it adds to the drama for the Jilliam shippers, I suppose I'm not so sure about that. I think it wasn't clear Helene Joy wanted to stay. Locking in that one ship arc would make contract negotiations pretty high stakes and possibly nerve-wracking for the rest of the cast. It's in the interest of the producers and the writers to let William play the field as long as possible. Also, if the show is largely built around one main character, and there's one main ship arc, and that arc closes...well, we will see what happens after the wedding. :/ I think the Jilliam pressure came entirely from the audience. Ps. That video is awkward and says a lot about what's wrong with Ovation! The 70s porn music! The unintended nun incest! The woman crying as she hands over her dress! With further racist implications since she's black! (and implying totally the wrong thing about both William's character and the "Ladies Man" in a post Elliot Rodgers era). I complained to Ovation about that last bit. It's misleading about what actually happens in that scene as well. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 3, 2014 2:00:10 GMT
I believe you're referring to the scene from "The Knockdown"? I had to go back and rewatch the video...That was definitely inappropriate to include in there! Not all representative of what was actually going on. How were you able to complain to Ovation? Do they have an accessible email address?
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Post by snacky on Jun 3, 2014 5:05:25 GMT
I believe you're referring to the scene from "The Knockdown"? I had to go back and rewatch the video...That was definitely inappropriate to include in there! Not all representative of what was actually going on. How were you able to complain to Ovation? Do they have an accessible email address? Yes I just sent an email to the address on their web site. They are a pretty small station - I bet the top brass ends up reading it. They would have to be stupid not to follow up on the surrealism idea if "funding" is the real reason they had to rename Murdoch Mysteries "The Artful Detective." I'm trying to imagine what kind of sleazy imagination went into making those videos. Even before the #yesallwomen discussion, mature men tended to realize that making women cry as they handed over their clothes stopped being sexy in the 70s, along with date rape drugs. And seriously, you could not get farther from William Murdoch's personality or the tone of Murdoch Mysteries. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 3, 2014 5:51:29 GMT
It certainly was way off key! Do they have other commercials that butcher it like this?
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Post by snacky on Jun 3, 2014 5:56:15 GMT
It certainly was way off key! Do they have other commercials that butcher it like this? They have a couple other MM commercials, but none so "politically incorrect". |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 3, 2014 21:52:58 GMT
The producers caved in to sheer shipper pressure and did a complete turnaround to satisfy the call for Jilliam. There’s never really been any competition for Julia. She’s been the only one there all these years, married or not. No one else was given the time of day with William. Ettie was the one he was into until he found out what she did for a living and he left her because he said it was against his religious beliefs. Ms Pensell didn’t have anything to do with him except work. Enid was the only one that could have been some competition but even that was killed off before it began by making William more interested in the child than in the woman. She was presented as a sandwich filler for William and Julia to chew on. She sent him away. Anna was one that affected him emotionally but then everything was immediately thrown at her and she was not allowed a minute to draw breath. If he had kept her for one day, she would have been dead by nightfall. He only saw Iris for a few hours and she was sent into the mountains with no fixed address. That’s hardly what you would call competition or choice. If Julia had been carted away after one or two episodes to Winnipeg or Europe or some abyss like the others were there won’t be a Jilliam either.
I have asked the same question as Annie – why bother bringing in all these women when you already have the one you want other than to show us that William is a normal man and has no problem expressing himself to women. He knows how to loosen up and show emotion and affection to anyone he emotionally connects with.
I guess only those that watch through Ovation get to see the video so I can’t comment to that. But I do know the scenes you are referring to. There are people that think that sleaze and false representation are good marketing strategies. I don't believe there are any MM fans that will buy into that. I don’t suppose you got any response to your email from anyone there.
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Post by snacky on Jun 4, 2014 3:41:34 GMT
I guess only those that watch through Ovation get to see the video so I can’t comment to that. But I do know the scenes you are referring to. There are people that think that sleaze and false representation are good marketing strategies. I don't believe there are any MM fans that will buy into that. I don’t suppose you got any response to your email from anyone there. The videos are on Youtube - I wonder why you can't view them. But you really nailed the problem: false representation. I don't even understand what audience they are trying to draw with this 70s porn parody, since this is the pretentious Arts channel in the U.S. Today I was thinking about the movie Inception, and how the director said something like it didn't matter if the token fell at the end because the movie itself was the director's dream. (I might have dreamt that, actually). MM does not pretend to be "reality": it is comfortable as a dream, where a magic hat can appear to restore William to his full Detective Murdoch powers. That's the kind of thing Ovation should be picking up on. Anyway, regarding all the women thrown at William: yes, Julia was set up from the beginning to be the "love interest", though it was in the producers' and writers' interest to keep their options open, particularly when Helene Joy had offers from elsewhere. These women created "friction" to delay the progress and gratification of the Jilliam arc, in the same way that online games create friction to delay progress so people will stick to the game and buy stuff to help them level up. One relationship I would like more insight on is what William wanted from Sally Pendrick. Mrs. Pendrick was married and William had to reassure Julia that Mrs. Pendrick was not competition (implying that he knew she looked like something to him). What did he want from her? What did he think their relationship might become? |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 4, 2014 3:57:55 GMT
I think poor Ovation is just confused...they don't know what to do with Murdoch! It seems fairly obvious to us as fans that they should be marketing the heck out of it, but clearly someone is not on the ball in the hierarchy of their organization. I love the idea of MM being a beautiful dream, full of magic and wonder, and parts of that are there to be sure (homburg!). But at the same time, the anchors of historical characters and events keep it rooted in a reality that is exciting and wonderful in itself. The turn-of-the-century was one of the most fast-paced, exciting times in history, the perfect setting for one of the most cutting edge detectives! Ovation may benefit from exploiting the fantastical aspects of the show, but the reality of it is one of the most appealing factors for me. I'm glad you picked up on Sally Pendrick, snacky. I wasn't sure about bringing her up in this thread or not (since she turned out to be a villain and all). But there was certainly an attraction there for William. I think part of the attraction was that she was an engaging, intelligent woman which is always attractive to William. The other part is that he was part of her plot, and she used her "womanly wiles" to distract him. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 4, 2014 4:19:47 GMT
I love the idea of MM being a beautiful dream, full of magic and wonder, and parts of that are there to be sure (homburg!). But at the same time, the anchors of historical characters and events keep it rooted in a reality that is exciting and wonderful in itself. The turn-of-the-century was one of the most fast-paced, exciting times in history, the perfect setting for one of the most cutting edge detectives! Ovation may benefit from exploiting the fantastical aspects of the show, but the reality of it is one of the most appealing factors for me. I'm glad you picked up on Sally Pendrick, snacky. I wasn't sure about bringing her up in this thread or not (since she turned out to be a villain and all). But there was certainly an attraction there for William. I think part of the attraction was that she was an engaging, intelligent woman which is always attractive to William. The other part is that he was part of her plot, and she used her "womanly wiles" to distract him. I know I'm hung up on the homburg, but I'm sure there are other things that can be considered in a dreamlike way as well. For instance, in Dial M for Murdoch, William knocks on a stranger's door, and George opens the door. Of course that's comic relief involving the unexpected, but I think there's also something Freudian-Jungian-dreamlike in that, too. Not quite sure where I've seen that before, but I'm sure I've seen it. Normal people and things displaced from where you expect them to be.  Of course MM has well-constructed stories, and I wouldn't want them to go off the deep end with artsy gestures and pretenses - I just think it's worth considering MM from that angle, especially when you're trying to drive at what differentiates it from a show like, say "Breaking Bad". The Sally Pendrick thing fascinates me, especially because she's a villain. Does William feel guilty that he "fell" for her? Is she somewhat a devil in his eyes? Does that mean he's attracted to the devil in some ways? Does that mean engaging, intelligent women have something of the devil in them for women? This is saying something interesting about William's yearnings and his subconscious. On a shallower side, I think he's turned on by the Euro-bohemian avant-garde life, shedding all the constraints that he has been imprisoned by. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 4, 2014 4:51:27 GMT
I love George's expression when he opens the door!   Anyways...I don't think the writer's meant to imply from Sally Pendrick that intelligent, engaging women necessarily have some of the devil in them. But neither is anyone a saint by any means. William himself has many times mentioned the capacity for evil possessed by mankind. He probably felt guilty for allowing himself to be duped by Sally, but I don't think it changed his way of thinking about independent, confident women. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 4, 2014 5:04:29 GMT
I love George's expression when he opens the door! Anyways...I don't think the writer's meant to imply from Sally Pendrick that intelligent, engaging women necessarily have some of the devil in them. But neither is anyone a saint by any means. William himself has many times mentioned the capacity for evil possessed by mankind. He probably felt guilty for allowing himself to be duped by Sally, but I don't think it changed his way of thinking about independent, confident women. Yes, it's mirror-like, almost like a mime, isn't it? Uncanny, as Freud would say! I agree the writers weren't imputing any demonology to Sally Pendrick. The question for me is how she fits in to William's worldview: why was he attracted to her, what does it mean for him when she turned out out to be a criminal, and does this mean something for him in the Catholic context? I'm glad you brought up the concept of Evil: I'm sure you're right, but me, not being that sort of Believer, never really heard it. Now I'm kind of curious about when and where William feels a truly supernatural source of Evil with a capital E. Does he think Sally was Evil? |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 4, 2014 5:14:05 GMT
Based on a very brief acquaintance with Catholic beliefs and my own Protestant background, I doubt that William considered Sally (or anyone else) as capital E "Evil" or as the source of any Evil. Rather they are manifestations of man's inherent wickedness, left unchecked by salvation through Christ. If that is how William views things, I would think that he would mostly feel guilty for not seeing through to her true nature. I think that her attractiveness would have not only upset his religious beliefs, but also insulted his intellect...as they say, hindsight is 20/20 and we all think to think that we should have seen behind false facades. William may have even felt a tiny pocket of pity for her, as he as shown towards other "villains" throughout the series.
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