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Post by snacky on Jun 8, 2014 2:28:40 GMT
and I really do hope they do not ruin the characters by changing them to fit with what the shippers want because that means they will have to break the characters or at least one of them. If William is repressed with Julia, why is he not so with Anna? I totally agree on that, and I've seen it way too many times. The writers try to give the shippers what they demand, what the shippers think they want, and what gets delivered is a disappointing cliche'd mess. I like to give the writers a headwind and trust them to work it out if they've given a romantic relationship as a premise. If it takes 20 seasons, so what? What's the rush? More tantalizing for us! In regard to Anna: William had no memory of who he was when he met her. His middle-class persona is a late-age construct in the first place. So basically, he forgot a lot of his repressive gestures. But he was still unsure of himself until Anna made the first move. Also he works with Julia, and Julia is trying to establish a place in a male preserve where she can be disrespected and trod upon at the drop of a pin. William has been very careful to maintain a professional distance and show Julia the respect she deserves. But this became a barrier when he wanted to express his personal feelings for her. He had to get her "out of the office" first. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 8, 2014 2:35:22 GMT
That’s exactly the point. William does not need “little green fairies” to muddle his mind to connect romantically with Anna. He doesn’t need to be forced or dragged there kicking and screaming. It comes most naturally to him. He is clear headed and in control of his senses. So it seems (about the William/Anna fanvids). I think there are some of Julia/Darcy though. Can I twist your arm to do some for us please? Thank you in advance.  William doesn't need to drink to get it on with Julia in Season 7, he just needs some liquid courage to propose! Again I think the green fairies were necessary to overcome the barrier of professional distance: William never had to contend with that with Anna. I'd love to see some William/Anna fanvids, though. I don't have the patience to make them - in fact I don't have have any vid-making software right now or even a way to capture clips. But I bless the person who will go for it. Julia/Darcy vids? Seriously? Like watching paint dry. That has to be a bad joke. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 8, 2014 23:44:39 GMT
I totally agree on that, and I've seen it way too many times. The writers try to give the shippers what they demand, what the shippers think they want, and what gets delivered is a disappointing cliche'd mess. If it takes 20 seasons, so what? What's the rush? More tantalizing for us! In regard to Anna: William had no memory of who he was when he met her. His middle-class persona is a late-age construct in the first place. So basically, he forgot a lot of his repressive gestures. It happened in season 7 for the non shipper fans and even for some of the Jillam fans. Lines and clips thrown in there because they think that’s what the fans want to see and hear. I’d much rather wait for things to take their natural course right through to the end. It’s the most gratifying especially when you save the best for last! The situation with Anna is not about William losing his memory and senses. He’s even been more expressive when he’s been fully in control of all his faculties. For me, it’s not the kissy shots onscreen but what went on behind the scenes that got my attention. The talking, the connection, the interaction, not just in England but subsequently afterwards. I bet William knows more about Anna than he does about Julia. One thing MM is very good at doing is leaving big clues in what is left unsaid or unseen. Whilst everybody is talking about the obvious, the real thing is happening in the background. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 8, 2014 23:53:36 GMT
Au contraire, things gradually heated up in Season 7 once Julia had recovered from Darcy's death I think their wedding night is going to be awesome, because (if the virgin theory is correct) they've both been holding a lot back That’s the shipper demand being fulfilled. They wanted Jilliam showing more affection, being more romantic, in the frontlines working cases together, etc. It was a full blown soap opera by season 7 as a result and that’s why shipper fans were the ones that enjoyed season 7. It wasn’t about getting over Darcy or breaking the repressed Victorian barrier. Julia didn’t feel repressed when she linked up with Darcy, a workmate in the same work place, actually in the same department. William, on the other hand, is busy encouraging George to hook up with Emily. Season 5 was not completely soapy because the actors and plots had already been secured by mid season 4 and the producers couldn’t do a complete turnaround like they did in season 6. It’s been a one-way traffic to make the show about the main characters and their personal affairs since then. The mysteries come second. Haha, the virgin theory! I like that one. Throw that out the window already. We know that neither one of them is a virgin and they are not practicing abstinence even with eachother, prophylactics or not. Still that shouldn’t stop their wedding night from being awesome if they make it there. They should enjoy it. Why shouldn’t they? It would even be awesome for me if I was a fly on the wall. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 9, 2014 0:02:18 GMT
William doesn't need to drink to get it on with Julia in Season 7, he just needs some liquid courage to propose! Again I think the green fairies were necessary to overcome the barrier of professional distance: William never had to contend with that with Anna. I'd love to see some William/Anna fanvids, though. I don't have the patience to make them Julia/Darcy vids? Seriously? Like watching paint dry. That has to be a bad joke. He doesn’t need any artificial stimulant or persuasion to get it on with others. We’ve seen that over time. A relationship without good communication will always be problematic. No problem with the William/Anna clips. I have the DVDs if I feel nostalgic. Thanks anyway. Haha! Julia/Darcy vids. There are some, you know. Believe it or not. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 9, 2014 0:37:12 GMT
My theory is that the Government or someone like Meyers will negotiate the deal - or, Heaven forfend, it will be a joint Canadian-American operation and Clegg will be running it, and both Brackenreid and William will feel like pawns in the whole thing. I would like to say that Sally is not really that big a fish in the pond to pull out the big guns but I forget for a moment who she is. You are right, it will take something like this to keep her from the noose. The death ray episode alone involved Meyers, Tesla and her husband and those are big boys indeed. Not to talk of all the things she has been into before on both sides of the border. That would be an interesting episode. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 9, 2014 1:09:34 GMT
It happened in season 7 for the non shipper fans and even for some of the Jillam fans. Lines and clips thrown in there because they think that’s what the fans want to see and hear. I’d much rather wait for things to take their natural course right through to the end. It’s the most gratifying especially when you save the best for last! William losing his memory and senses. He’s even been more expressive when he’s been fully in control of all his faculties. I bet William knows more about Anna than he does about Julia. Have to agree to disagree: I've seen much more egregious "fan service". All the MM writers have been doing here is addressing William's relationship arc, which they have presented to the audience as a premise from Day 1. They can't just treadmill that one aspect of William's life forever. The mysteries are contained by episodes, but the character elements should develop over the course of the seasons. The evidence is in: William has a relationship with Julia. It's not adding anything extra "for shippers" to include how that plays out. Of course, that isn't always handled well. Then even the shippers aren't happy. XD Regarding Julia vs. Anna: I don't see how William could get to know more about Ann over the course of a week, which is about how much time went by. Again, the circumstances of their encounter were very different. I do think Julia became more playful and even aggressive once she didn't have to maintain her professional reputation at Station House 4. I gave my reasons in another post why I think Yannick as an actor had some advantages in being able to deal out instant chemistry with just about any woman in the vicinity. I hardly think Helene Joy, the leading lady, would be excluded from that. It was a deliberate choice to establish the distance and obstacles between their characters. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 9, 2014 1:28:55 GMT
That’s the shipper demand being fulfilled. They wanted Jilliam showing more affection, being more romantic, in the frontlines working cases together, etc. Julia didn’t feel repressed when she linked up with Darcy, a workmate in the same work place, actually in the same department. William, on the other hand, is busy encouraging George to hook up with Emily. Haha, the virgin theory! I like that one. We know that neither one of them is a virgin and they are not practicing abstinence even with each other, prophylactics or not. Still that shouldn’t stop their wedding night from being awesome if they make it there. They should enjoy it. Now wait just a minute! So it's "natural" when things get jiggy with Anna, but a "shipper demand being fulfilled" when the same happens with Julia? I think that's just your bias showing! The characters should be on the frontlines working together because they're the leads of the show! I'll grant you that Julia being in the psychiatric profession is making that more difficult, but the relationship actually gives them away around that problem. I don't even know where you're getting your evidence about Julia and Darcy working together. The only time we saw that was in Buffalo Shuffle, and William couldn't even tell they were carrying on a relationship. Darcy struck William as a very "careful" man - someone who would observe every propriety. At breakfast, he sat a mile away from Julia. Regarding William's encouragement: the Victorian middle class was expected to marry as a step toward upward mobility. William wants George to enjoy the same happiness he has, and he knows from his own experience that "class barriers" aren't what they used to be. But I do think the romantic commentary can intrude on MM. One of the most ham-handed moments of the show for me was when George started opining on how perfect William and Julia were for each other when Julia was engaged to Darcy. Was there someone in the audience that needed reminding where matters currently stood? I'm sure there was a more subtle way to do it. Now, now don't mock the virgin theory. We only have proof that Julia is not a virgin, so let the Cult of the 40-Year-Old-(Male)-Virgin devotees have their corner of the room. I have to agree that's more historically accurate, and more in keeping with certain character traits, though circumstantial evidence can also easily support Victorian Hypocrisy theory. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 9, 2014 1:36:12 GMT
Haha! Julia/Darcy vids. There are some, you know. Believe it or not. Can't find a single one. This is the One True Video to Rule All Darcy Vids. |
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Post by snacky on Jun 9, 2014 1:39:21 GMT
I would like to say that Sally is not really that big a fish in the pond to pull out the big guns but I forget for a moment who she is. The death ray episode alone involved Meyers, Tesla and her husband and those are big boys indeed. The woman had a working death-ray and was in negotiations with International arms dealers. Who knows what else she's got! Probably a really, really, really big tank. With an even bigger death-ray. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 9, 2014 21:53:16 GMT
I love how Murdoch dismisses George's idea of a Venusians death-ray when he literally fought a death ray less than a year ago! Silly Murdoch!
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Post by ziggy on Jun 9, 2014 23:37:02 GMT
It was a deliberate choice to establish the distance and obstacles between their characters. We both agree that they were deliberately written to be that way with eachother and that’s why we shouldn’t try to force the issue or they will not look authentic. Whilst some might see it as reason to drag things on forever, others might see it as not being compatible and they should call it a day and move on. We could go on like this till the cows come home to milk and we will not see eye-to-eye on certain issues about Jilliam. But we have some agreement here and I take that as a good thing. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 9, 2014 23:54:17 GMT
So it's "natural" when things get jiggy with Anna, but a "shipper demand being fulfilled" when the same happens with Julia? evidence about Julia and Darcy working together. Regarding William's encouragement: William wants George to enjoy the same happiness he has, and he knows from his own experience that "class barriers" aren't what they used to be. But I do think the romantic commentary can intrude on MM. Now, now don't mock the virgin theory. I use Anna because she is the only one out of the “others” to make an impact on William to show the difference in the relationship he has with Julia and what he could have with someone else. Anna’s been absent for years and no one remembers her let alone actively ships her. I was referring to their time in Buffalo where they courted and got engaged. The point I was making is that the same repressed era and professional respect etc. is when Julia met Darcy and you say it affected William and Julia. It didn’t seem to affect Julia and Darcy. Jilliam have taken years and we are still talking about repressed era and professional respect being the reason. Something else is amiss that we should consider. And that’s why William can encourage George to go for it because he himself doesn’t see the repressed era thing that we are giving as an excuse for him taking so long to get out of the blocks. I know. Even someone who’s never met them before “instantly” knows they are in love. It seems the only people who don’t know about it are the lovers themselves. Lol, I wasn’t mocking. Would I ever? I didn’t know there were true believers to the theory. I thought you were mocking me. My apologies, lol. I blame you for this – trying to ruin the fun for others. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 9, 2014 23:58:47 GMT
The woman had a working death-ray and was in negotiations with International arms dealers. Who knows what else she's got! Haha, that’s hardly what you might call a shrimp in the ocean.  But I wonder how she might feel though about going under the Witness Protection Program seeing that it’s not exactly the same as living as a free citizen. I guess she’ll figure that there’s a lot she can still get done in the WPP. She is a very resourceful woman. |
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Post by ziggy on Jun 10, 2014 0:13:18 GMT
I love how Murdoch dismisses George's idea of a Venusians death-ray when he literally fought a death ray less than a year ago! Silly Murdoch! Can’t blame him too much. Murdoch seems really confused sometimes telling the difference between George’s ideas based on real life experiences and his very vivid imagination and he's been wrong a few times too. |
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But I wonder how she might feel though about going under the Witness Protection Program seeing that it’s not exactly the same as living as a free citizen. I guess she’ll figure that there’s a lot she can still get done in the WPP. She is a very resourceful woman.