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Post by snacky on Sept 24, 2014 16:13:23 GMT
After thinking about this today, for me the *philosophical* objection to the Virgin Theory (and I think this is where ziggy has a problem, too) is that "virgin William" ends up being infantilized somewhat. "Adult" and experience Julia guides William through his "first time". There's a really bad fanfic in that - almost at the level of mpreg. It's certainly not where my Virgin Theory opinions are spinning out from. So I think I'm going to revise my position yet again. Here is my current view: 1) William did find some opportunities/take some risks when he was younger. i.e., he is not technically a virgin. Besides I want to believe in FallenBelle's logging camp shenanigans. 2) As William matured, settled into regular work, and aspired toward middle class life, he became more risk averse. Once he aspired to take the civil service exams and become a detective, he did not want to risk everything he was working for on unplanned pregnancies and STDs. When he dated Liza, he probably didn't sleep with her because she was part of his plan to establish himself in the middle class. 3) In this scenario, William probably hasn't "gone all the way" since his mid-20s, and he still never slept with Julia - so he's still a "virgin" as far as sleeping with her is concerned. If William hasn't slept with Julia, I don't think he's slept with Anna. Snacky, my dear, you are always faithful to angsty William.  A little bit of angst is sexy!  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 24, 2014 16:14:48 GMT
I will forever be baffled why any viewer believes William is a virgin, and that he and Julia haven't been lovers. The evidence on the show would say otherwise to both these theories IMO. I started leaning that way after watching The Knick episode about how syphilis had become so rampant that there was a "no noses" club in New York. And historically/culturally, there was more support for men as well as women to save themselves for marriage. William would not have wanted to mess up his career with an unplanned pregnancy. So those factors make it possible. Even though I'm leaning towards no, it's because of things like this why I think it's possible. It was a different time-sure plenty of boys went to the brothels, but a lot of men didn't. Given William's piety, it's not implausible either. For me, the questions is has he always been that pious, or was he looser in his "glory days". This is pre-sexual revolution, and not everything was as swinging as it is today. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 24, 2014 16:17:02 GMT
I started leaning that way after watching The Knick episode about how syphilis had become so rampant that there was a "no noses" club in New York. And historically/culturally, there was more support for men as well as women to save themselves for marriage. William would not have wanted to mess up his career with an unplanned pregnancy. So those factors make it possible. Even though I'm leaning towards no, it's because of things like this why I think it's possible. It was a different time-sure plenty of boys went to the brothels, but a lot of men didn't. Given William's piety, it's not implausible either. For me, the questions is has he always been that pious, or was he looser in his "glory days". This is pre-sexual revolution, and not everything was as swinging as it is today. I will vote "looser in his glory days" just so we can avoid the "Julia teaches William all about sex" scenario. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 24, 2014 16:19:54 GMT
Even though I'm leaning towards no, it's because of things like this why I think it's possible. It was a different time-sure plenty of boys went to the brothels, but a lot of men didn't. Given William's piety, it's not implausible either. For me, the questions is has he always been that pious, or was he looser in his "glory days". This is pre-sexual revolution, and not everything was as swinging as it is today. I will vote "looser in his glory days" just so we can avoid the "Julia teaches William all about sex" scenario. Even if he is a virgin, that is one scenario I'd love to avoid. Blech. |
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Post by lovemondays on Sept 24, 2014 16:23:17 GMT
I will vote "looser in his glory days" just so we can avoid the "Julia teaches William all about sex" scenario. Even if he is a virgin, that is one scenario I'd love to avoid. Blech. Ya, totally, lol! I give credit to William for having some moves but I'm positive that Julia has WAY more experience than he does. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 24, 2014 16:24:11 GMT
I will vote "looser in his glory days" just so we can avoid the "Julia teaches William all about sex" scenario. Even if he is a virgin, that is one scenario I'd love to avoid. Blech. Talk about totally undermining William's manhood. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 24, 2014 16:25:38 GMT
Even if he is a virgin, that is one scenario I'd love to avoid. Blech. Ya, totally, lol! I give credit to William for having some moves but I'm positive that Julia has WAY more experience than he does. I agree with this, too. Definitely. And William is going to have so much fun discovering what she knows. |
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Post by lovemondays on Sept 24, 2014 16:36:15 GMT
Ya, totally, lol! I give credit to William for having some moves but I'm positive that Julia has WAY more experience than he does. I agree with this, too. Definitely. And William is going to have so much fun discovering what she knows. It makes me wonder how the writers will handle the marital side of their relationship IF they actually get married this season. My guess is they will completely ignore it i.e. not even crime solving conversations in bed instead of a smoke... I think it more likely that their fully dressed banter will just carry more innuendo. Sigh. |
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Post by ziggy on Sept 24, 2014 23:21:05 GMT
He may have had to do a double hyst. to fix her up. If so, she will never be able to conceive. Julia has been with other men since then. She's even been married. Why wouldn't she have tried to conceive? She wasn't exactly waiting for William all of that time. Julia may need some sort of procedure before she can conceive - that's why she hasn't conceived yet. Neither Julia nor Dr. Tash may know about that procedure yet. Maybe it hasn't been invented yet. That's why they haven't held out hope. There has been no indication at all that Julia had a double hysterectomy. Or any hysterectomy. For all we know, the issue may be she just has a lot of scarring blocking her womb. Or perhaps, the fact she hasn't conceived yet led to the wrong conclusions why. They didn't have a lot of advanced medical imaging yet: just a lot of speculation. She is a doctor and I don’t think Dr. Tash was speculating or vague about his conclusions. In 309 (L&HR) when they thought that the baby’s body found might have been Mrs. Blake’s, she very clearly stated that Mrs. Blake could not have conceived another child as she had a rudimentary hysterectomy after Rebecca, her first child was born. If she could be so certain after examining a pile of bones 60 years after the fact, I don’t see how she could have misdiagnosed her own situation having lived through the abortion herself. She may not have done a hyst. but she is very clear that she can’t have children and it’s not some undiscovered medical procedure or treatment stopping her. She didn't even bother to read up on possible medical alternatives even after she knew that William will have her any way she is. She has settled for adopting a child for William’s sake. |
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Post by ziggy on Sept 24, 2014 23:28:03 GMT
You've lost me snacky  . If you watch the ep, William completely ignores the concept of being an invalid. When Julia mocks him being afraid of the needle, she indirectly indicates he toughed out his other injuries. Toward the end of his injuries William says he can stand the pain, and Julia says she knows he can. Julia seems to be heartless about his injuries, but perhaps she might be respecting William's choice to "not need mothering". I don’t see Julia as the nurturing or motherly type. Her natural instinct was to take the food away rather than feed it to him. As soon as William pulled a face over Mrs. Kitchen’s meal, Julia promptly took the tray and put it out of his reach  . She wasn’t trying to be mean but because she felt William was a big boy who could make decisions for himself. He didn’t like the food and didn’t want to eat and that was it. She then proceeded to batting her eyelids at him. That’s just Julia being Julia  . His other women, not just Enid, would have done differently. They would not only recognize that he is feeling poorly and with all the medication and injections probably didn’t have much of an appetite. They would also know that he needed food in his system to help him with the effects of the medicines and injuries and would try to feed him if they have to just to get something down him. The reason Enid didn’t cook him something herself was just to keep the plot going that the old lady was trying to poison him. Julia wouldn’t even think of cooking him anything let alone feeding him. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 25, 2014 0:12:21 GMT
I agree with this, too. Definitely. And William is going to have so much fun discovering what she knows. It makes me wonder how the writers will handle the marital side of their relationship IF they actually get married this season. My guess is they will completely ignore it i.e. not even crime solving conversations in bed instead of a smoke... I think it more likely that their fully dressed banter will just carry more innuendo. Sigh. I think we might get one bedroom-type scene per season. But some other domestic scene is more likely, such as chatting over breakfast. It will definitely be all innuendo.  |
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Post by snacky on Sept 25, 2014 0:38:33 GMT
She is a doctor and I don’t think Dr. Tash was speculating or vague about his conclusions. In 309 (L&HR) when they thought that the baby’s body found might have been Mrs. Blake’s, she very clearly stated that Mrs. Blake could not have conceived another child as she had a rudimentary hysterectomy after Rebecca, her first child was born. If she could be so certain after examining a pile of bones 60 years after the fact, I don’t see how she could have misdiagnosed her own situation having lived through the abortion herself. She may not have done a hyst. but she is very clear that she can’t have children and it’s not some undiscovered medical procedure or treatment stopping her. She didn't even bother to read up on possible medical alternatives even after she knew that William will have her any way she is. She has settled for adopting a child for William’s sake. There is no indication her situation is the same as Mrs. Blake's.  |
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Post by snacky on Sept 25, 2014 0:40:16 GMT
Julia wouldn’t even think of cooking him anything let alone feeding him. Really looking forward to seeking Julia and/or William trying to cook... |
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Post by murdochic on Sept 25, 2014 10:49:15 GMT
There's no indication that Julia could naturally have children. She's said she can't. Adoption is the more likely outcome, and I've never had a problem with that. There were plenty of children who needed loving parents, and W/J would be that. Plus, it gives storyline scope about them getting their child. And it means Julia doesn't have to be out of commission while pregnant.
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Post by Hodge on Sept 25, 2014 12:22:27 GMT
There's no indication that Julia could naturally have children. She's said she can't. Adoption is the more likely outcome, and I've never had a problem with that. There were plenty of children who needed loving parents, and W/J would be that. Plus, it gives storyline scope about them getting their child. And it means Julia doesn't have to be out of commission while pregnant. There is no indication in MM however, if you've seen the crossover episode of Republic of Doyle (MM - Republic of Murdoch) William has a descendant that's the spitting image of him, Bill Murdoch. William's genes are there somewhere even if Julia's aren't and I don't think William will have an illegitimate child. Many women that are told they can't conceive do, especially after adopting first. |
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. She wasn’t trying to be mean but because she felt William was a big boy who could make decisions for himself. He didn’t like the food and didn’t want to eat and that was it. She then proceeded to batting her eyelids at him. That’s just Julia being Julia 
. His other women, not just Enid, would have done differently. They would not only recognize that he is feeling poorly and with all the medication and injections probably didn’t have much of an appetite. They would also know that he needed food in his system to help him with the effects of the medicines and injuries and would try to feed him if they have to just to get something down him. The reason Enid didn’t cook him something herself was just to keep the plot going that the old lady was trying to poison him. Julia wouldn’t even think of cooking him anything let alone feeding him.
