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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 22:16:57 GMT
I don't need to see the video. I was there...in the room with hundreds of adoring fans. I can assure you that there was nothing negative in their banter or interaction. I understand you saw Helene leaning away from Yannick but it was a function of how the stage had been set up. There were 10 chairs in a direct line so people had to shift themselves to see the others. That whole group was having a great time! The part where Yannick was re-enacting the 'wedding ride' had them both laughing like crazy. That his BY FAR the most suggestive, physical scene EVER on MM. There was some embarrassment from both of them because it was so graphically suggestive...something MM doesn't do but there was no anger to be seen, IMO. Totally agree I didn't see anything untoward either and I too was there.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 14, 2015 22:19:06 GMT
You have a good idea there. I, for one, do not perceive any anger between the actors. I do believe that neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes. Yannick is happily married and Helene I think is gay. There, I said it. Find me any mention of ANY relationship she's had that has made it to the media. Whatever the reasons, there are so many ways for the writer to include romantic/loving gestures without them getting really physical. I must say though, after Julia's nightmare in "The Incurables" it would have been nice to see them spoon together as a way to convey William's care and concern for her in 3 seconds instead of the time wasted on his flopping back down and zooming in on her face. About the anger or whaterver it is, I based my opinion on the video about the 100th episode. m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC4AE5B7BAB322839&index=1&v=hd8ims28SS8In the other previous interviews, we could notice that they built up a great complicity between them. But in this one, it's the Cold War. Yannick BISSON seems to be ill-at-ease. He keeps his head turned toward the opposite side from her. He remains upright as if he is afraid of touching her. And it's the same for her. Hélène JOY turns her back on him all the time and she stays as far as possible from him.They don't talk to each other and they even don't look at each other. No smiles and laughters anymore. I don't care about gossip magazines. I just notice that they as actors were pretty good at giving us the illusion that the two characters were truly in love with each other. Now, I notice that Yannick BISSON don't know where he can lay his hands. See how fast he removed his hand from her thigh in "The Devil Wears Whalebone". And in the last episode, when she run in his arms, he didn't open his arms, he just put them in front of him as he expected her to take his hands. Bref, quel gâchis! What a waste! And of course, the "after nightmare" scene should have been different but as you said: "neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes" -and I would add- anymore. They had no such problem in "The Green Muse". I honestly don't care if they like one another or not. It is however, their job to portray their characters in such a way that causes me to suspend disbelief and forget that they're two actors portraying fictional people. If they can't do that, that's bad acting. As Carco (I think?) said, you have to work with people you don't like, and you still have to be professional, even when they're not (and you want to claw their eyes out). However, they've shown themselves to be good actors over the past several years, and I'm thinking that this is intentional-this distance that PM discussed earlier. But, if this isn't intentional, well, this does not bode well.
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 14, 2015 22:19:18 GMT
I just notice that they as actors were pretty good at giving us the illusion that the two characters were truly in love with each other. Now, I notice that Yannick BISSON don't know where he can lay his hands. See how fast he removed his hand from her thigh in "The Devil Wears Whalebone". And in the last episode, when she run in his arms, he didn't open his arms, he just put them in front of him as he expected her to take his hands. Bref, quel gâchis! What a waste! And of course, the "after nightmare" scene should have been different but as you said: "neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes" -and I would add- anymore. They had no such problem in "The Green Muse". I disagree that he moved his hand from her thigh quickly in TDWW. However, I will agree that he could have held her differently in The Incurables....but I won't agree that this suggests anger or distance between the actors. I will try your suggestion of watching the body language with the show on mute. Are there one or two episodes you would recommend as showing your point most clearly?
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 14, 2015 22:28:40 GMT
I often got this same vibe, but then I had to remind myself that both Yannick and Helene are trying to play proper Victorians who ARE uncomfortable with each other. Yannick particularly overplayed this during the first couple of years to the point where people were developing "autistic" theories about his character. Very good point. We are all comparing scripted Victorian behaviour against the much more touchy-feely society of today. Europeans, in general, are more physical in their greetings and gestures, eg. double and triple kisses for greeting, versus an handshake on this side of the Atlantic. I would love to hear another voice from the writing team about this issue...perhaps Carol Hay or Paul Aitken?
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 22:31:13 GMT
I just notice that they as actors were pretty good at giving us the illusion that the two characters were truly in love with each other. Now, I notice that Yannick BISSON don't know where he can lay his hands. See how fast he removed his hand from her thigh in "The Devil Wears Whalebone". And in the last episode, when she run in his arms, he didn't open his arms, he just put them in front of him as he expected her to take his hands. Bref, quel gâchis! What a waste! And of course, the "after nightmare" scene should have been different but as you said: "neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes" -and I would add- anymore. They had no such problem in "The Green Muse". I disagree that he moved his hand from her thigh quickly in TDWW. However, I will agree that he could have held her differently in The Incurables....but I won't agree that this suggests anger or distance between the actors. I will try your suggestion of watching the body language with the show on mute. Are there one or two episodes you would recommend as showing your point most clearly? I watched The Incurables on mute earlier today and skipped through to all the scenes with Yannick and I thought I saw a distance in ALL the scenes not just the ones with Helene. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, William's demeanor in this ep is off, I can't put my finger on it, he doesn't smile his speech is detached. He seems 'out of sorts'. The only scene with any warmth is where he puts his arm around Julia after the kids and he seemed his usual caring self then.
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Post by Toronto Fan on Feb 14, 2015 22:35:00 GMT
Just chiming in too say I was at the screening too. Yannick and Helene seemed to get along just fine me. I have been to a few fan events and the whole entire cast seems to enjoy one another's company and get along well. Helene and Yannick may not be close friends off set, but they are two very different people with very different lives. Are we all equally close with the people we work with? No! Does that mean we do not like them or do not get along with them? Again - no!
I think each of the writers of MM have different views on what makes a romantic couple. They have a lot of stories they are trying to tell, and need to find a balance between mystery, romance, story etc etc etc. I agree William and Julia have been somewhat lacking in the romance department but also believe there have been nice tidbits throughout.
These types of threads with references to actors not getting along, and inferences about actors sexuality is what leads to rumors and nasty gossip. It is a fairly well known fact that Helene is extremely private. Even if she is gay so what. She is a talented enough actress to play being in love.
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 22:37:19 GMT
I, for one, do not perceive any anger between the actors. I do believe that neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes. Yannick is happily married and Helene I think is gay. There, I said it. Find me any mention of ANY relationship she's had that has made it to the media. Whatever the reasons, there are so many ways for the writer to include romantic/loving gestures without them getting really physical. I must say though, after Julia's nightmare in "The Incurables" it would have been nice to see them spoon together as a way to convey William's care and concern for her in 3 seconds instead of the time wasted on his flopping back down and zooming in on her face. Sounds like a good alternative explanation to me! The bedroom scene would have made sense if the writers were going with a theory that William had been pushed away from "coddling" Julia, and was perhaps developing his own insecurities over it. However, PM confirmed the writers have no such theory. So we viewers have to go back to: wtf.
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 22:51:56 GMT
I don't dislike them, heck, we've worked together more than 10 years and we spend 5 days a week/ 8 hrs/day together.... that's way more time than I spend with my husband during the week. But if that "off day" with my co-worker happened to also be one where we had to sit through a dinner together at the CC, then some people might pick up the moody vibes; if they studied us all evening. Yep, and it's hard when you're together all day, every day, for months on end, frenetically filming these episodes. There is much testimony on how stressful and fatiguing it is. I think this is just another variety of "Moonlighting Curse" anxiety. Things aren't going as expected, and people look for reasons why. The reasons fan is picking at the body language is he doesn't understand English well and season 8 isn't translated into French yet. Regarding the interviews, he watched the interviews himself before asking me to translate - and it usually took me a while to get around to it. So don't blame him for seeing things through this filter. Yannick and Helene did choose to give public interviews. If some people are watching their body language instead of listening to their words, there is nothing that can be done about it. One thing discussion can do is provide alternative interpretations and also prevent such interpretation from getting too privacy invading or speculating on the personal lives of the actors.
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:04:21 GMT
Apparently she came to Canada because of a Canadian boyfriend. I've just flicked through The Incurables sans sound. I noticed a distance between Yannick and everyone he was in a scene with. Haha, well I've written in the past how he's managed to avoid the whole slash fandom - which is difficult for such a handsome actor! I think I posted some theories about what he did as an actor to prevent that (I've already forgotten them), but perhaps one thing he does is preserve his personal space with *everybody*, male or female. Or he's made a careful study of what constitutes "chemistry" in acting and makes sure he only creates those signals deliberately, with the person he's supposed to "have chemistry" with in the performance? This might be a little tricky if he's trying to be Victorian at the same time, though. Anyway, just a thought. Interesting experiment!!! I'll have to try that some time!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Feb 14, 2015 23:10:25 GMT
I just noticed that there is a distance between the two actors. I focuse my attention on their body language and (IMHO) I have the feeling that Yannick BISSON and Hélène JOY are angry with one another. And whatever the reason -it doesn't really matter to me/it's not my business/I'm not this kind of fans-, I just think they couldn't hide it in their interactions during the filming and I also suppose that they surely must be rather reticent to play certain scenes so the writers were obliged to cut/delete them. I'm French and yes, I must admit to have some difficulties to well understand English. I often asked SNACKY for translations. And maybe you think that I'm stupid to base a part of my opinion on the body language but according to me, it's very revealing. Do I have to remind that you can know when people are lying to you when their eyes go to the left? An evidence that you can't totally control your body. Another example, when you don't like or angry with someone, you hate that he or she touch you. So do the test: mute and watch as if you don't understand English. Whatever is going on with the actors off screen (and I myself, could care less), to allow it to permeate on-screen (as some seem to suggest) would be unprofessional beyond belief. If one can't "act" a part then one shouldn't be an "actor".
But I doubt very much that Directors, for example, would risk their own professional reputations by even allowing it to come across on screen and I can't imagine, for a minute, that a team of writers would cater to individual egos by writing around it.
Personally, I'm with my co-workers all day and for the most part they're great people and I enjoy working with them even after 10+ years for some of us . "Working" being the operative word. I honestly don't look forward to all the rah-rah events, galas, dinners, etc. that we are expected to attend after a full workday, where we have to go to the Toronto Convention Centre and spend another 4-5 hours in each other's presence. It's been along day of commuting and working and by then I'd rather be relaxing at home with my husband. It wouldn't surprise me at all if my body language betrayed my feelings at those events.
And occasionally a co-worker and I might happen to have disagreeing viewpoints on a work issue. I don't dislike them, heck, we've worked together more than 10 years and we spend 5 days a week/ 8 hrs/day together.... that's way more time than I spend with my husband during the week. But if that "off day" with my co-worker happened to also be one where we had to sit through a dinner together at the CC, then some people might pick up the moody vibes; if they studied us all evening.
If we look hard enough and when we analyze things to the nth degree, fodder for rumour and gossip can be found anywhere.
This is a board with a lot of passionate viewers and I get that and I understand cultures look at the same thing with different eyes but IMHO this line of discussion feels uncomfortable to me and I feel like it's heading nowhere good.
Something is ruining the TV show that I love watching. And yes, I can't help thinking the work of the actors is compromised/jeopardized by a disagreement between them and that's unprofessional. But I should keep in mind, acting/being an actor is a hard work and not a work like the others. So I suppose that sometimes, it's hard for them to get past their resentment. After all, they are only human. I also realize how different my point of view about this TV show is than yours. And I don't like how my opinions are ruining the forum -surely because I do not hesitate to say openly that I'm often disappointed- but it's not my intention.
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 23:24:08 GMT
Something is ruining the TV show that I love watching. And yes, I can't help thinking the work of the actors is compromised/jeopardized by a disagreement between them and that's unprofessional. But I should keep in mind, acting/being an actor is a hard work and not a work like the others. So I suppose that sometimes, it's hard for them to get past their resentment. After all, they are only human. I also realize how different my point of view about this TV show is than yours. And I don't like how my opinions are ruining the forum -surely because I do not hesitate to say openly that I'm often disappointed- but it's not my intention. You're entitled to your opinion on the show you love and you're also entitled to express it. It may be different than ours but that doesn't mean it's ruining the forum. It's just something that the people that have seen the 100th ep panel in person don't agree with because we didn't see it. I might add that as a Brit I have always found Canadian men very different and not as easy to get along with as British men in particular. I had many male friends in England, I have hardly any here, I just don't understand them. Perhaps Helene being Australian has had the same experience and for some reason she's not covering it as well. Not that I've seen anything to actually make me think that.
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:40:44 GMT
I just notice that they as actors were pretty good at giving us the illusion that the two characters were truly in love with each other. Now, I notice that Yannick BISSON don't know where he can lay his hands. See how fast he removed his hand from her thigh in "The Devil Wears Whalebone". And in the last episode, when she run in his arms, he didn't open his arms, he just put them in front of him as he expected her to take his hands. Bref, quel gâchis! What a waste! And of course, the "after nightmare" scene should have been different but as you said: "neither one is very fond of physically romantic scenes" -and I would add- anymore. They had no such problem in "The Green Muse". Well, there could be many explanations for their body language in interviews, but as long as the actors get along on set - and lovemondays says they do - then that's all we can ask. You aren't the only one who noticed that weird body language in The Devil Wears Whalebone or the distance in The Incurables. We have been speculating on it all week. Now that Hodge has run her experiment on Yannick's general distancing in The Incurables, I wonder what would happen if we ran an earlier episode like TGM? There could be other factors. For instance maybe it was just friggin' cold on set. Or it might be Yannick was being careful with Helene because she had other injuries besides her broken arm. Anyway, you aren't the only one who thinks it looks odd, and that the producers of MM should have realized it looked odd - especially after Helene had been absent for a few episodes - as the follow up to a long awaited marriage. Someone was not looking after the store.
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:44:14 GMT
I might add that as a Brit I have always found Canadian men very different and not as easy to get along with as British men in particular. That's interesting! I would have thought that British men are more reserved! Or is it some different reason? For the record I loved living in England because I made friends there easily - reserved people recognize one another!
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:58:44 GMT
I watched The Incurables on mute earlier today and skipped through to all the scenes with Yannick and I thought I saw a distance in ALL the scenes not just the ones with Helene. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, William's demeanor in this ep is off, I can't put my finger on it, he doesn't smile his speech is detached. He seems 'out of sorts'. The only scene with any warmth is where he puts his arm around Julia after the kids and he seemed his usual caring self then. Didn't Yannick get hurt somehow during one of the filmings? Maybe it was while climbing over the fence of the asylum? I remember he posted on Twitter when he had to go home for the rest of the day. Anyway, maybe he was spaced out on some pain pills, lol.
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Post by Hodge on Feb 15, 2015 0:08:22 GMT
I might add that as a Brit I have always found Canadian men very different and not as easy to get along with as British men in particular. That's interesting! I would have thought that British men are more reserved! Or is it some different reason? For the record I loved living in England because I made friends there easily - reserved people recognize one another! Not sure where you get that Brits are reserved, we'll talk and get along with anyone! There is admittedly a certain class that are reserved but it's not a general thing. When I was a kid if someone got on the bus and there was only one other person on they'd sit with them. Doesn't happen now but it's not because they're reserved. Not sure what it is with Canadian men, actually North American men, I do find there's more machismo here and that's something I just don't get. Men here want a SON, Englishmen, at least when I was there, were happy to have a daddy's girl, mothers wanted a mummy's boy. When I was expecting my husband would always say "if we have a girl..." I had to remind him we might have a boy!
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