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Post by Hodge on Feb 15, 2015 6:30:57 GMT
Not sure what it is but I do remember reading somewhere he complained about his knees. Cycling won't help that either. I have bad knees and the doctor once told me not to cycle, I didn't for years but I'm back to it now and I do occasionally suffer the consequences. I do, too - from karate. I remember reading Yannick did martial arts when he was younger and I saw some evidence of it in some of his work. Anyway, I can testify that it can ruin your knees, and Asian senseis/shifus generally have no mercy since Asians are a little more flexible. Glad someone else saw it so I know I wasn't dreaming. |
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Post by S. on Feb 15, 2015 10:36:12 GMT
Hi,
I'm French and I have been reading this forum for some weeks now.
I just wanted to give my opinion because it's remaind me something I saw in other forums about other show, NCIS LA for exemple. It was exactly the same thing, the shippers were complaining about the lack of depth, of love, of emotions in differents important scenes with the "couple" of the show. Saying that they were in love so we should si more emotions, that the actors situation in real life was blocking theme for doing the romance thing correctly, that the shipp was dead, ect.
We learned just later, during a episode's commentary the actors had made, that they did takes of these scenes with a lot more emotionnal depth ! , and that was there favorites. But the directors and producers seems to always keep the take the most restraint emotions.
We don't know if there wasn't scenes with William opening his arms for Julia in The Incurables for exemple. They are actors, they do multiples takes, with differents interpretations. After that, only one is choosen. Maybe the directors thought that the scene we saw in The Incurables was more "Murdoch like" than the others. Even if it's not the fans opinion.
It's not the first time William seems distant. In some episodes in S3 I was even wondering if they were together because william was not acting really gentle or in love for me. At the end of S7, after the confrontation with Darcy Julia was in sexy, charming mode but william was acting and talking to her like if she was kind of a constable.
I watched the pannel, twice, and I saw nothing really strange. For me they are not acting with more distance between the two of theme than between the others actors in there. They are smiling, laughing. During the (again) kissing question, they can seem embarassed but who wouldn't ? but both of them are laughing. I don't think I would be laughing if it was someone I hate so much that I can't even do my job.
She's sitting in a way that allow her to look at Yannick when he is talking. I mean if she was sitting in a different angle so, we could assume that she is mad with Jonnhy ? They have serious faces sometimes, but all the actors have some serious faces at some points when they are listening to the others.
Sorry for the ramble, it just make me uneasy to see peoples on internet being so quick at questionning actors professionnalism. ( I say that with no accusations, it's just my feelings ^^ )
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 15, 2015 11:33:56 GMT
Hi, I'm French and I have been reading this forum for some weeks now. I just wanted to give my opinion because it's remaind me something I saw in other forums about other show, NCIS LA for exemple. It was exactly the same thing, the shippers were complaining about the lack of depth, of love, of emotions in differents important scenes with the "couple" of the show. Saying that they were in love so we should si more emotions, that the actors situation in real life was blocking theme for doing the romance thing correctly, that the shipp was dead, ect. We learned just later, during a episode's commentary the actors had made, that they did takes of these scenes with a lot more emotionnal depth ! , and that was there favorites. But the directors and producers seems to always keep the take the most restraint emotions. We don't know if there wasn't scenes with William opening his arms for Julia in The Incurables for exemple. They are actors, they do multiples takes, with differents interpretations. After that, only one is choosen. Maybe the directors thought that the scene we saw in The Incurables was more "Murdoch like" than the others. Even if it's not the fans opinion. It's not the first time William seems distant. In some episodes in S3 I was even wondering if they were together because william was not acting really gentle or in love for me. At the end of S7, after the confrontation with Darcy Julia was in sexy, charming mode but william was acting and talking to her like if she was kind of a constable. I watched the pannel, twice, and I saw nothing really strange. For me they are not acting with more distance between the two of theme than between the others actors in there. They are smiling, laughing. During the (again) kissing question, they can seem embarassed but who wouldn't ? but both of them are laughing. I don't think I would be laughing if it was someone I hate so much that I can't even do my job. She's sitting in a way that allow her to look at Yannick when he is talking. I mean if she was sitting in a different angle so, we could assume that she is mad with Jonnhy ? They have serious faces sometimes, but all the actors have some serious faces at some points when they are listening to the others. Sorry for the ramble, it just make me uneasy to see peoples on internet being so quick at questionning actors professionnalism. ( I say that with no accusations, it's just my feelings ^^ ) These are all good points, and ultimately, I think the real issue here is for whatever reason, something is off about this season, and ultimately, while we all have our own theories, none of us really know what's going on. But, you make really good points. Thanks for jumping in, and welcome! |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 18:07:42 GMT
Hi, I'm French and I have been reading this forum for some weeks now. shippers were complaining about the lack of depth, of love, of emotions in differents important scenes with the "couple" of the show. Saying that they were in love so we should si more emotions, that the actors situation in real life was blocking theme for doing the romance thing correctly, that the shipp was dead, ect. But the directors and producers seems to always keep the take the most restraint emotions. Maybe the directors thought that the scene we saw in The Incurables was more "Murdoch like" than the others. Even if it's not the fans opinion. It's not the first time William seems distant. In some episodes in S3 I was even wondering if they were together because william was not acting really gentle or in love for me. At the end of S7, after the confrontation with Darcy Julia was in sexy, charming mode but william was acting and talking to her like if she was kind of a constable. Sorry for the ramble, it just make me uneasy to see peoples on internet being so quick at questionning actors professionnalism. ( I say that with no accusations, it's just my feelings ^^ ) First - bienvenu! Don't worry about the discussion over rifts between the actors - that was brought up as one of many possibilities, and its also been refuted by eye-witnesses. I think people are overly worried that we're going to start pecking at that point. But if you want to blame someone for the conversation taking that turn, I think you can blame Peter Mitchell for saying that writers and directors *weren't* intending to create that sense of distance. That was the theory we were discussing here - the same point you make above about LA NCIS: there were deliberate choices being made. Then Peter Mitchell said no such point was being made, so everyone started grasping at straws. Anyway, I don't think some at Maison de MM needs to do a quick overview because just denying what the viewers see doesn't do them any favors. The viewers won't magically see something different. Instead it makes the viewers look for alternative explanations. When I turned in last night we were on whether the actors were recovering from physical injuries at the time... |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 18:21:30 GMT
Maybe the directors thought that the scene we saw in The Incurables was more "Murdoch like" than the others. Even if it's not the fans opinion. By the way, I don't object to the bedroom/nightmare scene at all. I thought Fallenbelle's interpretation of it was on the mark, and it seemed clear William was half asleep and not aware what was going on. That bed was so small, they would end up spooning the minute Julia was lying back down anyway! I didn't really raise my eyebrows until the end of the episode where Julia was recovering from her traumatic experience by having a stiff drink at the other end of the sofa. William should have been making some reassuring/supportive moves at that point.  |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 18:28:19 GMT
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Post by S. on Feb 15, 2015 18:36:10 GMT
Thanks ! There were deliberate choices but the writers or producers never told that it was there point. They were differents times, like now with PM, where the NCIS LA showrunner was saying his view on a scene that a lot of fans saw totally differently, like the total opposite ! They can make choices because for them it's more 'in character' but still without wanting to create anything, but sometimes it's not very lucky. The corset scene was, I think, really cute and sexy, and William wasn't showing any sign of someone who want to go away from his wife, in fact, before the interruption it looks like he wanted to practice his "taking of a corset"  I think that in The Incurable they wanted to do a Julia show, you know, Julia saving the day, saving herself all on her own, so they needed Julia alone and William not with her. Infortunately it was perceived like William going away from Julia. I remember something during live tweeting like "sorry william it's julia's show". The physical injuries is true too. In "real life" : she was injured, and the episode being made not in order, we don't know how helene was feeling. If it was just after her accident, or a little while after. I think if I was her partner, even inconsciously I would have try not to be to close, not to harm her. The physical injuries is part of the storyline too now. We never saw William acting toward someone who is hurted, who his "extremely gentleman behavior" would react ^^. I'm not saying that it's the right think to do for a showrunner, just that it happens a lot of times ^^. I suppose a lot of fans were not happy at all at the end of season 3, start of season 4 with william gaving up the love of his life, without even trying to take another train. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 19:28:00 GMT
like now with PM, where the NCIS LA showrunner was saying his view on a scene that a lot of fans saw totally differently, like the total opposite ! in fact, before the interruption it looks like he wanted to practice his "taking of a corset" I think that in The Incurable they wanted to do a Julia show, you know, Julia saving the day, saving herself all on her own, so they needed Julia alone and William not with her. Infortunately it was perceived like William going away from Julia. The physical injuries is true too. In "real life" : she was injured, and the episode being made not in order, we don't know how helene was feeling. If it was just after her accident, or a little while after. I think if I was her partner, even inconsciously I would have try not to be to close, not to harm her. The physical injuries is part of the storyline too now. We never saw William acting toward someone who is hurted, who his "extremely gentleman behavior" would react ^^. I suppose a lot of fans were not happy at all at the end of season 3, start of season 4 with william gaving up the love of his life, without even trying to take another train. Regarding the scene in Devil Wears Whalebone - it was sexy when they were at the mirror! The part that seemed strange was after William came to loosen the corset strings. Julia nearly died, and he is sitting somewhat apart from her. The optics on that are very strange, especially considering that it was his fault for putting her in a suspicious corset in the first place! I think as fans we were willing to give some credit for Helene's injuries there, though. For The Incurables we did appreciate that this was Julia's episode, and her behavior made sense when we tried to put it the pattern of larger character development because throughout the season she told William to leave her alone. But we also needed to put that into the context that Julia and William were married now, so how would this "mutual independence" be impacting their marriage? Perhaps Julia didn't need to be rescued from the asylum in the end, and she's relieved she proved herself strong enough to handle her business, but isn't she also relieved that William is there when she needs him? How does William feel about not being needed? Also, the fact that Helene went on hiatus to guest star in another show as well as having to take time off because of her bicycle accident meant that the audience was already boggled by the disappearance of Julia shortly after the honeymoon when we expected the marriage to be tightly integrated into the show. It was okay - it was GREAT, in fact - that The Incurables was Julia's show. But at the end her husband, William, should have been a little more "gesturally" supportive. The audience was unhappy with Julia's departure at the end of Season 3, but the writers turned that into a character arc. We thought this emotional distance might also be a character arc that would be exploited by Eva. But Peter Mitchell said this wasn't the case: that he knows not of this distance of which we speak. This distance wasn't a deliberate choice of the showrunners *by their own words*. They need to do their own overview of the seasons (in the apparently scrambled order?) and take another look at what effects it might have. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 15, 2015 21:59:40 GMT
like now with PM, where the NCIS LA showrunner was saying his view on a scene that a lot of fans saw totally differently, like the total opposite ! in fact, before the interruption it looks like he wanted to practice his "taking of a corset" I think that in The Incurable they wanted to do a Julia show, you know, Julia saving the day, saving herself all on her own, so they needed Julia alone and William not with her. Infortunately it was perceived like William going away from Julia. The physical injuries is true too. In "real life" : she was injured, and the episode being made not in order, we don't know how helene was feeling. If it was just after her accident, or a little while after. I think if I was her partner, even inconsciously I would have try not to be to close, not to harm her. The physical injuries is part of the storyline too now. We never saw William acting toward someone who is hurted, who his "extremely gentleman behavior" would react ^^. I suppose a lot of fans were not happy at all at the end of season 3, start of season 4 with william gaving up the love of his life, without even trying to take another train. This distance wasn't a deliberate choice of the showrunners *by their own words*. They need to do their own overview of the seasons (in the apparently scrambled order?) and take another look at what effects it might have. The problem with this is they will still probably see it from their own point of view. It's hard to stand back and see your work from someone else's point of view. |
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Post by carco on Feb 16, 2015 15:41:53 GMT
This distance wasn't a deliberate choice of the showrunners *by their own words*. They need to do their own overview of the seasons (in the apparently scrambled order?) and take another look at what effects it might have. The problem with this is they will still probably see it from their own point of view. It's hard to stand back and see your work from someone else's point of view. And TPTB know where storylines/arcs will be at the end of the season, while we're watching them unfold in (painfully) slow motion.  If it's not addressed by either William and/or Julia by the end of the season then yes, I'd have to begrudgingly admit that it was not "written in".  |
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Post by snacky on Feb 17, 2015 0:42:06 GMT
The problem with this is they will still probably see it from their own point of view. It's hard to stand back and see your work from someone else's point of view. And TPTB know where storylines/arcs will be at the end of the season, while we're watching them unfold in (painfully) slow motion. If it's not addressed by either William and/or Julia by the end of the season then yes, I'd have to begrudgingly admit that it was not "written in". TPTB needs to consider the promises it makes to the audience, because the audience speculates from there. Consider these promise. 1) 10% darker. 2) A lot of changes this year. 3) Keep romance alive after marriage. 4) Found ways to keep apart after marriage. There may have been more "hints" dropped, but I remember particularly speculating on those four. The other big one was how William was going to cope with the class/financial difference after marrying Julia. Interestingly the writers have thrown us some bones on that one, though I don't know if that's going to actually constitute an arc. As for the actual promises - I don't think MM followed through on any of them. And this jarred the expectations the audience had built up. We kept asking where the darker episodes were. We kept asking where the romance was. We looked for the "keeping apart" strategy (that PM now denies). As for the "changes" - so far the only major change is that William got married and then everyone forgot about it. Red herrings and speculating in the wrong direction can be good busywork for the audience if they later get some delightful surprise. But instead we got freaked out about the marginalization of women and the future of Julia of show. And IMHO, if the writers missed this opportunity for Eva to exploit, it seems like they aren't watching their own show. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 17, 2015 2:31:44 GMT
TPTB needs to consider the promises it makes to the audience, because the audience speculates from there. Consider these promise. 1) 10% darker. 2) A lot of changes this year. 3) Keep romance alive after marriage. 4) Found ways to keep apart after marriage. There may have been more "hints" dropped, but I remember particularly speculating on those four. The other big one was how William was going to cope with the class/financial difference after marrying Julia. Interestingly the writers have thrown us some bones on that one, though I don't know if that's going to actually constitute an arc. As for the actual promises - I don't think MM followed through on any of them. And this jarred the expectations the audience had built up. We kept asking where the darker episodes were. We kept asking where the romance was. We looked for the "keeping apart" strategy (that PM now denies). As for the "changes" - so far the only major change is that William got married and then everyone forgot about it. Red herrings and speculating in the wrong direction can be good busywork for the audience if they later get some delightful surprise. But instead we got freaked out about the marginalization of women and the future of Julia of show. And IMHO, if the writers missed this opportunity for Eva to exploit, it seems like they aren't watching their own show. I wish I knew how to split this up to deal with the different parts separately....  There have been some darker eps this year, OTW 1&2, What Lies Buried, The Incurables, and now Toronto's Girl Problem. That's 5 eps out of 14, it was obviously numbers not % of darkness. Actually, I'm okay with this. There have certainly been a lot of changes. Romance hasn't much been in evidence unfortunately. Keeping them apart was Christina Jennings at the FanExpo but they have certainly come through on that! It seems to me the one thing that the audience has really complained about is the romance or the lack thereof.... I'm not sure most people are bothered about the darker and I suspect most people don't want changes. Many of this season's eps have sneaked up on me, as in I haven't enjoyed them as much the first time but after re-watching I find I'm liking them. This is because MM is always so multilayered. |
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If it's not addressed by either William and/or Julia by the end of the season then yes, I'd have to begrudgingly admit that it was not "written in". 
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT