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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 22, 2014 14:11:43 GMT
And this frustrates me! We knew William thought about sex (various fantasies) and even a sex dream in season 6, but not with Julia, the woman he wants to marry! Why is this? It doesn't make sense to me! If you were right about the lingerie being imagined, then I think that's a clue William does have "off stage" fantasies about Julia. If the content of his past fantasies mean anything, they do a lot more in his head than they do in reality. So much so, he may even forget what they aren't doing in reality! But I do find it interesting that the basis of William's choice seemed so frankly sensual - almost primal - yet his approach to Julia has been exactly the same as his approach to Enid. We've never seen him look at Julia like he looked at Anna before he started trying to unlace her corset. He's not going after what he chose Julia for. Part of it might be because Julia brings it to him, though. Then the question is how much is she bringing to him.  But even if the lingerie wasn't imagined, it also serves as proof that "off stage developments" have occurred between those two. Which I think it must...right?  But you're right-Bristol!William is more earthy than Toronto!William-who's pretty repressed. But I'm starting to wonder if Bristol!William is really the same William who spent time at ranches and logging camps. Then, he decided he wanted to move up, and became a gentleman-he acted in the manner of the station to which he wanted to belong. Thus, Bristol!William is the unguarded, uncalculating alter William. But, that William still lurks beneath-he's just done a very good job of denying that part of himself. But it does make an appearance occasionally in the guise of pervy!William, whom we are all well acquainted with.  Hubby and I watched "That Annoying Red Planet" tonight, and when William recognized Julia at the train station, my husband laughed and noted "recognizes her by the swing of her hips" which means that William must have been doing some considerable fantasizing about those hips and derriere, correct? It can't be the first time he's looked, because up to that point in the show, there hadn't been any mention or evidence of William staring at her backside. The next notable instance of William checking her out is when she's bent over the dead girl in TGM-which is also in a house of ill repute, in a girl's bedroom where such ill-reputedness occurred. I'm starting to think that William who knows exactly where he is, takes a moment to stare at her bottom, and think of such ill-reputed activities-with a certain pathologist. Maybe the show won't show us anything more blatant than that, but maybe we are supposed to read between the lines. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 22, 2014 14:16:22 GMT
On a reality point of view, perhaps they keep down any sexual content as the show is aimed at a varied audience. Let's face it there aren't many shows out there that you can watch with your grandmother and your grandchild. Btw, did anyone else note that MM is seen in Iran. I wonder if they do a lot of editing. Yeah that's awesome! World peace could be built on a foundation of fandom chat about MM hahahaha! If they do have to make some cuts, I doubt it's much. I wonder what they did about the abortion story line, though...? This "audience" factor is why I choose to work with the hints the show gives us. I interpret kissing/lingerie fantasies to mean there are probably more explicit ones occurring "off screen". Another thought: perhaps there are fewer fantasies of that ilk in later seasons because William is getting more of the real thing? But again, because of the type of show this is, that has to occur off screen. I think there should be some fan fodder to at least compete with the Anna scene, though, or else people will go on forever thinking William is more comfortable and/or has more of an "animal attraction" to Anna. After investing 8 years into building up to a wedding, that's kind of dumb. My points exactly! Why do they show scenes of a titilating nature with other characters, but not between W/J? |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 22, 2014 15:16:32 GMT
Keeping the sexual content down seems like a viable option, but they've shown others in sexual situations or at least described them-why not hint at that a couple of times for W/J? I'm sure it's meant to keep us guessing, but it does raise the question of whether or not William can unleash the beast on demand on the wedding night? I'm worried that he's been on his best behavior for so long around Julia, he can't be anything else.  Thinks about writing disappointing wedding night fic.The one opportunity to have a hint of a sexual situation was when they met at the Queens Hotel for the night but even then 'proper' William wouldn't let down his guard. That's the problem, William is just too much of a gentleman to 'compromise' Julia, e ven though she's been compromised before.... The problem here is we're not used to dealing with a socially and sexually repressed man from the 19th century and we're expecting him to deal with situations in at least a 20th century way if not 21st. William's been bombarded with Catholic dogma for many more years than he's been under the influence of Julia's modern ideas, he is making headway, give him a chance. I have to admit to liking William as more than the perfect gentleman even if it is frustrating. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 16:37:08 GMT
but it does raise the question of whether or not William can unleash the beast on demand on the wedding night? I'm worried that he's been on his best behavior for so long around Julia, he can't be anything else. Thinks about writing disappointing wedding night fic.This makes me wonder, too. The main reason I didn't want to go with the virgin theory (other than I didn't want them to miss out on each other's youthful charms) was that I figured men would avoid that particular nightmare scenario by getting the occasional practice/exercise. Now that I'm back on the Team Virgin, I'd think this would be a lurking fear for a 40 year old man. But hopefully Julia hasn't just been baiting him - there's been a little test-driving as well. If William is a virgin and Julia knows it, I think she'd be already laying the groundwork to make sure he's as relaxed and confident as possible on their wedding night. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 22, 2014 16:48:04 GMT
This makes me wonder, too. The main reason I didn't want to go with the virgin theory (other than I didn't want them to miss out on each other's youthful charms) was that I figured men would avoid that particular nightmare scenario by getting the occasional practice/exercise. Now that I'm back on the Team Virgin, I'd think this would be a lurking fear for a 40 year old man. But hopefully Julia hasn't just been baiting him - there's been a little test-driving as well. If William is a virgin and Julia knows it, I think she'd be already laying the groundwork to make sure he's as relaxed and confident as possible on their wedding night. Only William knows if he's a virgin and I think if Julia suspects him to be she'll be as gentle with him as he's been with her, until she figures out for sure. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 16:48:39 GMT
But, that William still lurks beneath-he's just done a very good job of denying that part of himself. But it does make an appearance occasionally in the guise of pervy!William, whom we are all well acquainted with. Hubby and I watched "That Annoying Red Planet" tonight, and when William recognized Julia at the train station, my husband laughed and noted "recognizes her by the swing of her hips" which means that William must have been doing some considerable fantasizing about those hips and derriere, correct? It can't be the first time he's looked, because up to that point in the show, there hadn't been any mention or evidence of William staring at her backside. The next notable instance of William checking her out is when she's bent over the dead girl in TGM-which is also in a house of ill repute, in a girl's bedroom where such ill-reputedness occurred. I'm starting to think that William who knows exactly where he is, takes a moment to stare at her bottom, and think of such ill-reputed activities-with a certain pathologist. Maybe the show won't show us anything more blatant than that, but maybe we are supposed to read between the lines. My take on that is William has a "very curious mind", and that would extend to how to do all the activities described in the Kama Sutra. So when "pervy William" comes out, what he's doing is some "how to" speculation combined with normal male porno fantasy (which he'd probably register as his mind going to "dark places" that he'd quickly repress). In TGM especially, I could almost see him getting out a compass and a sliderule, lol. But in regard to William choosing Julia over Enid, perhaps the "dark places" got the better of him. Somewhere we were discussing the various ways William might accommodate to a more modern belief system: Julia obviously helps him believe those dark place aren't so dark after all. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 16:52:07 GMT
My points exactly! Why do they show scenes of a titilating nature with other characters, but not between W/J? I think in Season 7 it was because we were getting scenes showing a real relationship, and there wasn't room for sexual fantasies as well. I thought the last scene in Ragtime was pretty suggestive. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 17:02:50 GMT
The one opportunity to have a hint of a sexual situation was when they met at the Queens Hotel for the night but even then 'proper' William wouldn't let down his guard. That's the problem, William is just too much of a gentleman to 'compromise' Julia, e ven though she's been compromised before.... The problem here is we're not used to dealing with a socially and sexually repressed man from the 19th century and we're expecting him to deal with situations in at least a 20th century way if not 21st. William's been bombarded with Catholic dogma for many more years than he's been under the influence of Julia's modern ideas, he is making headway, give him a chance. I have to admit to liking William as more than the perfect gentleman even if it is frustrating. Yes, I'm thinking from the reading I'm doing that it's more and more possible a man just wouldn't have the opportunity. Marriage-seeking women wouldn't give it to him, and "dollymops" wouldn't be safe. William is nothing if not cautious. Even if Julia has been compromised, William is also extremely slow on figuring out how to accommodate information that doesn't fit into his existing worldview. The solution isn't necessarily to go ahead and sleep with her. I'm sure they didn't sleep together at the Queen's Hotel just because of the adultery issue. Did anyone else notice their pupil dilation in that scene, though? While I think it's supposed to show their sexual attraction, it seems kind of fake and creepy to me. Perhaps some other cues that should go with that are missing. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 17:08:07 GMT
This makes me wonder, too. The main reason I didn't want to go with the virgin theory (other than I didn't want them to miss out on each other's youthful charms) was that I figured men would avoid that particular nightmare scenario by getting the occasional practice/exercise. Now that I'm back on the Team Virgin, I'd think this would be a lurking fear for a 40 year old man. But hopefully Julia hasn't just been baiting him - there's been a little test-driving as well. If William is a virgin and Julia knows it, I think she'd be already laying the groundwork to make sure he's as relaxed and confident as possible on their wedding night. Only William knows if he's a virgin and I think if Julia suspects him to be she'll be as gentle with him as he's been with her, until she figures out for sure. You don't think he'd let Julia know if he's been saving himself for marriage? This is where I've been trying to drag my friend Eclair into the discussion. I'd like more details on the Catholic permitted activities here. They probably have specific traditions on how to avoid sex before marriage.  |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 22, 2014 17:08:52 GMT
Yes, I'm thinking from the reading I'm doing that it's more and more possible a man just wouldn't have the opportunity. Marriage-seeking women wouldn't give it to him, and "dollymops" wouldn't be safe. William is nothing if not cautious. Even if Julia has been compromised, William is also extremely slow on figuring out how to accommodate information that doesn't fit into his existing worldview. The solution isn't necessarily to go ahead and sleep with her. I'm sure they didn't sleep together at the Queen's Hotel just because of the adultery issue. Did anyone else notice their pupil dilation in that scene, though? While I think it's supposed to show their sexual attraction, it seems kind of fake and creepy to me. Perhaps some other cues that should go with that are missing. If William had any intention of sleeping with Julia at the QH I doubt he'd have brought along dominoes. I bet that was a very long night for Julia! She must be getting frustrated by now, William on the other hand probably doesn't know what he's missing. Pupil dilation?? Are you sure that wasn't just the lighting....? |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 22, 2014 17:11:25 GMT
You don't think he'd let Julia know if he's been saving himself for marriage? This is where I've been trying to drag my friend Eclair into the discussion. I'd like more details on the Catholic permitted activities here. They probably have specific traditions on how to avoid sex before marriage. I'm not sure he'd discuss things like that. Perhaps he just thinks she'd know.... If he won't compromise her perhaps he figures she'd know he wouldn't compromise himself. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 17:13:12 GMT
If William had any intention of sleeping with Julia at the QH I doubt he'd have brought along dominoes. I bet that was a very long night for Julia! She must be getting frustrated by now, William on the other hand probably doesn't know what he's missing. Pupil dilation?? Are you sure that wasn't just the lighting....? I don't think it was the lighting because they were at different angles. Next time you watch that scene check out their eyes. lol at William not knowing what he's missing. I suppose that depends on how far he's gone before. He was pretty handy with Anna's corset strings! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 22, 2014 17:16:35 GMT
This makes me wonder, too. The main reason I didn't want to go with the virgin theory (other than I didn't want them to miss out on each other's youthful charms) was that I figured men would avoid that particular nightmare scenario by getting the occasional practice/exercise. Now that I'm back on the Team Virgin, I'd think this would be a lurking fear for a 40 year old man. But hopefully Julia hasn't just been baiting him - there's been a little test-driving as well. If William is a virgin and Julia knows it, I think she'd be already laying the groundwork to make sure he's as relaxed and confident as possible on their wedding night. Only William knows if he's a virgin and I think if Julia suspects him to be she'll be as gentle with him as he's been with her, until she figures out for sure. That's a good point, she would be gentle with him. Still, I think that's a fair conversation to have before you get married. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 22, 2014 17:19:25 GMT
I don't think it was the lighting because they were at different angles. Next time you watch that scene check out their eyes. lol at William not knowing what he's missing. I suppose that depends on how far he's gone before. He was pretty handy with Anna's corset strings! Damn! Now I have to go and watch it again.  Just like untying his shoe laces. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 22, 2014 17:20:23 GMT
Just like untying his shoe laces. Suuure it is... |
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